[GoatZillaRacing]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

Thank you for the visual evaluation of the new heads. Also for the complete list of specs and flow numbers. Several additional items that would be of interest would be: Could you please put one of these heads on a scale and get a bare casting weight of the head. Of course seats and guides would be installed, no problem there. It would be interesting to compare between these, E-heads and KRE. As we all know, sealing an aluminum head to an iron block with 10 head bolts is a challenge. Flimsy, lightweight heads make this an even more difficult task. Great cooling system layout helps, but there is no replacement for actual material in the head. Second, do you plan to cut one head up to inspect water jackets, thickness of the casting around the head bolt columns, meat in the bowl area, around the short turn, around the spark plug if you intend to make the chamber larger? Seems like all this would be necessary to fully evaluate. I realize you just got your hands on them and the initial look seems positive, but it seems like allot more destructive testing as well as dyno testing at a minimum would be needed to draw any real conclusions. I wish you the best in your efforts. Any chance you could 3D print a pair of these heads in IRON? (Which is what we really all need whether people want to admit it or not)

Lots more to do but one thing I can report is that the deck thickness looks to be .500 where Edelbrocks are .625. I don't see this as a huge drawback as these are street heads not our Arrow Injuneering Race Heads.
More to come for sure (including cast iron d-ports)

[Gach]

Tremendous undertaking, thank you for bringing what looks like a nice alternative to market.

[GoatZillaRacing]

Originally Posted by Gach

Tremendous undertaking, thank you for bringing what looks like a nice alternative to market.

Thanks! I'm sure just like Edelbrock there will be improvements made as we go but these should help keep more Pontiac's out there running Pontiac "Injuns".

[krisr]

Originally Posted by GoatZillaRacing

Thanks! I'm sure just like Edelbrock there will be improvements made as we go but these should help keep more Pontiac's out there running Pontiac "Injuns".

I share the same sentiment as Lou. Thanks for looking at these in depth!

[JD311]

60539 would be the correct comparison for the bare heads. 60589, are the older style chamber that doesn’t need cnc’d but just polished. But they actually cost more now than the Cnc heart shape chamber. The cnc e’s are 60539 at 72 cc. Which are 870.50 through summit.

[GoatZillaRacing]

Originally Posted by JD311

60539 would be the correct comparison for the bare heads. 60589, are the older style chamber that doesn’t need cnc’d but just polished. But they actually cost more now than the Cnc heart shape chamber. The cnc e’s are 60539 at 72 cc. Which are 870.50 through summit.

Isn't it great to have so many choices now! The Pontiac hobby is alive and well! Thanks for the info.

[64speed]

I wasn’t trying to poop on anyone’s efforts I just feel like with such an important part it needs a lot of scrutiny before everyone just starts clapping their hands and jumping up and down. I will have almost 10 grand in my engine and I would hate to lose it over 300 bucks

[242177P]

Originally Posted by 64speed

I will have almost 10 grand in my engine and I would hate to lose it over 300 bucks

$300??

[64speed]

Originally Posted by 242177P

$300??

I was typing and reading at the same time I meant 1200

[GoatZillaRacing]

Over the years how many sets of 670's, 16's 48's etc., have been butchered up, blown up, cracked from overheating or freezing, piston kissed, valve sank, well you get the idea!

They ain't making these ever again! If you have a nice set, you might consider putting them away and running these modern replacements.

It's time to start saving those original heads for restoration projects.

My dragster has 62's on it that are pretty close to maxed out for d-ports at around 260 CFM. These out of the box as cast street heads flow 289/202 CFM at .600 lift and weigh a bunch less (I'll be weighing them later today).

Let's help keep the past alive as we move into the future.

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by GoatZillaRacing

Lots more to do but one thing I can report is that the deck thickness looks to be .500 where Edelbrocks are .625. I don't see this as a huge drawback as these are street heads not our Arrow Injuneering Race Heads.
More to come for sure (including cast iron d-ports)

This for sure is interesting.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by GoatZillaRacing

1/2 inch radius intake plate and short stack exhaust tube

Thanks for the response. Would you have happened to flow the intake @ 0.700"? Looking at the flow curve I would have to believe it would go over 300 cfm.

Stan

[GoatZillaRacing]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Thanks for the response. Would you have happened to flow the intake @ 0.700"? Looking at the flow curve I would have to believe it would go over 300 cfm.

Stan

These are designed to be street heads so .600 was the logical limit.

Flow numbers would certainly increase but why advertise "street" heads that flow 400 CFM at .900 lift when no one is really going to drive their Pro Stocker back and forth to work.

I'm sure we'll do more testing at higher lifts once the CNC ported versions are out. We just wanted to show how these as cast stack up against comparable street heads.

Thanks for asking Stan.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by GoatZillaRacing

These are designed to be street heads so .600 was the logical limit.

Flow numbers would certainly increase but why advertise "street" heads that flow 400 CFM at .900 lift when no one is really going to drive their Pro Stocker back and forth to work.

I'm sure we'll do more testing at higher lifts once the CNC ported versions are out. We just wanted to show how these as cast stack up against comparable street heads.

Thanks for asking Stan.

Modern engines are changing. Some of the big LS engines have heads and intakes that flow a ton combined with cams that are not big at all. Makes for a efficient engine.
Its pretty interesting whats going on with all that. Gone are the days of the small "high velocity port" in modern performance engines.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by GoatZillaRacing

These are designed to be street heads so .600 was the logical limit.

Flow numbers would certainly increase but why advertise "street" heads that flow 400 CFM at .900 lift when no one is really going to drive their Pro Stocker back and forth to work.

I'm sure we'll do more testing at higher lifts once the CNC ported versions are out. We just wanted to show how these as cast stack up against comparable street heads.

Thanks for asking Stan.

Again thanks for the response.

Yes this is the street section, but the other section here is race. So there a number of people who full in between. Let call them street/strip cars. I would have thought some of these people might have been interested in the flow @ 0.700" lift.

Stan

[GoatZillaRacing]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Again thanks for the response.

Yes this is the street section, but the other section here is race. So there a number of people who full in between. Let call them street/strip cars. I would have thought some of these people might have been interested in the flow @ 0.700" lift.

Stan

We'll get there and I appreciate hearing from guys like you. If no one tells us what's important to them we have no way of knowing and if one is asking possibly hundreds are wondering. Thanks for letting me know.

[GoatZillaRacing]

Originally Posted by pmd400

How much advantage is there between cnc and as cast chambers for the average street guy? Bare Oldsmobile speedmaster heads are $760 a pair at jegs. Less than half the price of the speedmaster pontiac heads. The olds chambers don't look to be cnc machined.

You have to wonder if there are really that many more Olds engines in use or if MAYBE the Olds people just buy that much more than the Pontiac people.

Companies have to see a ROI and if after investing $250K to bring a product to market, it's simple math. $250K divided by X amount of sales = a profit in how many years? If it's a low volume deal, the price has to be higher to recover the investment.

Are there that many boats (not BIG cars, actual boats on the water) running Olds engines that it could justify the low price?

[Formulajones]

I for one would be interested in flow numbers up to .700" We run our street cars with over .600" rollers in them and drive them everywhere so I'd be particularly interested in .050" increments above that, and see if there is a point where the heads roll over.

[krisr]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

I for one would be interested in flow numbers up to .700" We run our street cars with over .600" rollers in them and drive them everywhere so I'd be particularly interested in .050" increments above that, and see if there is a point where the heads roll over.

Same, I'm at 0.630" after lash in my street(95%)/strip(5%) car. Capping lift to well under 0.600" may have been the practice back in the day with factory iron heads, not anymore.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by GoatZillaRacing

You have to wonder if there are really that many more Olds engines in use or if MAYBE the Olds people just buy that much more than the Pontiac people.

Companies have to see a ROI and if after investing $250K to bring a product to market, it's simple math. $250K divided by X amount of sales = a profit in how many years? If it's a low volume deal, the price has to be higher to recover the investment.

Are there that many boats (not BIG cars, actual boats on the water) running Olds engines that it could justify the low price?

I move around in the Oldsmobile circles as well, from my long friendship with Joe Mondello. (RIP) From my experience, the Oldsmobile hobby/racing enthusiasts are about 15-20% the size of the Pontiac community and I am probably being generous. That said, I honestly have no explanation why the Edelbrock and Speedmaster offerings would be so much less expensive than the Pontiac stuff. Other than when an Oldsmobile enthusiast opens his wallet it squeaks and dust comes out! They are the tightest of the tightest when it comes to spending money on their engines. There are of course a few exceptions, the fast ones! Possibly the vendors realized if they didn't lower the prices, they wouldn't sell any at all.