[77 TRASHCAN]

There may be perceptions of the Pontiac Community that we don't think about much.....Pontiac enthusiast's are very loyal to their Pontiac brand...sure are NOT to GM, but that's another fish to fry...
Maybe Edelbrock dropped their hook in the water (after Arnie and others talked Vic into it) and priced their first batch high enough to see what will happen. maybe the first batch was more profitable than we know, and they kept the pricing there. The stuff keeps selling...

[242177P]

I can offer a partial explanation for Olds heads being cheaper, but IMO it doesn't even come close to explaining the pricing discrepancy. If you look at a bare casting it's a rectangular block, nothing but right angles and holes.

[GoatZillaRacing]

Originally Posted by 242177P

I can offer a partial explanation for Olds heads being cheaper, but IMO it doesn't even come close to explaining the pricing discrepancy. If you look at a bare casting it's a rectangular block, nothing but right angles and holes.

It is one basic looking head isn't it. I was looking at it thinking "flathead".

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by GoatZillaRacing

Lots more to do but one thing I can report is that the deck thickness looks to be .500 where Edelbrocks are .625. I don't see this as a huge drawback as these are street heads not our Arrow Injuneering Race Heads.
More to come for sure (including cast iron d-ports)

In many ways, thermal rejection is more important on a street engine verses a race engine. .125 is one heck of a lot of material when you start to consider aluminum’s inate nature to expand and contract more rapidly than cast iron. A thin deck surface COULD lead to deck cracking, deck warping and head gasket sealing problems as Mike has already pointed out. BTW....before the flaming begins, my comments are based on my experience as an automotive machinist.

[64speed]

I have found places that had the AMC head on sale for less than the Pontiac head. You can’t tell me AMC is flying off the shelf. I saw my first aluminum headed Pontiac at the Run To The Sun car show this year and was ecstatic. I asked a bunch of questions from the older gentleman and quickly ascertained that he had bought them for the cool factor not for any real performance reason. I asked him to start it so I could hear it and he did and it was quiet as a mouse. I spent a lot of money on my engine. It’s gonna be a powerhouse. My wife asked me why the over construction of something I am just going to drive regular and I told her just because you treat it like a housecat doesn’t mean you don’t want it to roar. I got a lot of ricers and 90s mustang kids in my neighborhood who are gonna **** their pants the first time my car I drove home looking like a hunk of crap pulls itself out of the garage under its own power for the first time.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by GoatZillaRacing

Lots more to do but one thing I can report is that the deck thickness looks to be .500 where Edelbrocks are .625. I don't see this as a huge drawback as these are street heads not our Arrow Injuneering Race Heads.
More to come for sure (including cast iron d-ports)

FYI, The same outfit, Speedmaster is marketing a complete Big Block Chevy rectangular port IRON head complete, ready to bolt on for $385.00 each. They could certainly offer a Pontiac iron head, a much, much smaller and less complicated casting for $1000.00 a pair. NOW we are talking! That's where the volume market is. It would be much more difficult for the Chinese to screw up an iron head IMO.

[GoatZillaRacing]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

FYI, The same outfit, Speedmaster is marketing a complete Big Block Chevy rectangular port IRON head complete, ready to bolt on for $385.00 each. They could certainly offer a Pontiac iron head, a much, much smaller and less complicated casting for $1000.00 a pair. NOW we are talking! That's where the volume market is. It would be much more difficult for the Chinese to screw up an iron head IMO.

We are getting more castings to slice up and test and plan a "First Look" article to be released to Poncho Perfection, Smoke Signals, etc. Stay Tuned!

I don't see us Pontiac People having the volume of any Chevy head so prices will always be higher. The key is to get the most bang (in a good way) for your buck!

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by GoatZillaRacing

We are getting more castings to slice up and test and plan a "First Look" article to be released to Poncho Perfection, Smoke Signals, etc. Stay Tuned!

I don't see us Pontiac People having the volume of any Chevy head so prices will always be higher. The key is to get the most bang (in a good way) for your buck!

I agree of course. Pontiac sales may peak at 2-3% of the BBC market and 1% of the SBC market. Price matching with a Chevy should never be in the equation. It was just a FYI that they can afford to sell a PAIR of IRON BBC heads complete for $800.00. And make a decent profit doing it. That means they could market those heads bare for probably $500.00-$600.00 a pair. China is cheap, cheap cheap when they pay such low labor rates and we know cast iron material is almost free.

[pmd400]

Comparing prices on summit racing is interesting. AMC, Olds and Buick assembled edelbrock heads are cheaper then the Pontiac. Eagle don’t even make rods or cranks for AMC or Buick, probably because the market is to small. Edelbrock would sell a heap more Pontiac heads then Buick or AMC. Compare prices of speed pro forged piston, h beam eagle rods and cranks, edelbrock intakes between Pontiac and bbc. Pontiac is not that much more.
I hope these speedmaster heads fly out the door to force edelbrock to drop the price

[cfmcnc]

If the Pontiac communitity does not support Edelbrock ,Eddy seeing sales fall will Not lower the price ,they will discontinue the head as they have recently done with several heads and manifolds.As far as cylinder head manufacturing and design,One of the most important consideration is thermal movement,If the water jacketing and the amount and design of aluminum behind the seat rings is not correct and the seat ring material is not correct ,the exhaust valve will act as a glow plug and the hotter it gets it will act as if the spark timing was increasing.I speak from expierence.Also I believe in supporting USA companies.Its the Patriotic thing to do.Bill C.

[blueghoast]

I priced the speedy heads out of the box for around $1650. or 60 at Lane's.
Lane Automotive Inc. I think that's what it is. Plus tax.
I also bought a set of bare Eddy heads with the heart shaped chambers
through amazon for $749.50 each and they came with screw in studs,guide
plates and water nipple and plug for other side. with free shipping.
So with a little searching you can get some better pricing, but Pontiac heads
still seam to be a bit high priced for what I see?

GT.

[GoatZillaRacing]

As much as you would think these SpeedMaster heads would just be thrown together, here’s another little fact I found.
The installed height is listed as 1.800 and they actually measured 1.795.
Upon removing the spring cups and noticing different colored shims under them. I measured these and they varied by .005. This means that the assemblers at SpeedMaster measured things too or all the spring installed heights would not have come out at 1.795.
We’re thinking about testing these on our dragster because we have data on that combination and it just so happens that our roller cam setup has an installed height of 1.800 too. Stay Tuned!
Will Post Pics As Soon As Site Will Allow It!

[ho428]

Originally Posted by GoatZillaRacing

They are only offering the 72cc CNC chamber but as time permits we'll see how much meat is left to enlarge that.

How about much smaller, like 45-65cc for use on 301-350 engines.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by ho428

How about much smaller, like 45-65cc for use on 301-350 engines.

I don't believe that the 301 uses a standard Pontiac head.

[ponyakr]

Originally Posted by The Champ

I don't believe that the 301 uses a standard Pontiac head.

Was a build thread here about a 301 stroker build, using heads from a larger engine.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...29#post4748829

Probably not many will do this, but, it IS possible.

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

FYI, The same outfit, Speedmaster is marketing a complete Big Block Chevy rectangular port IRON head complete, ready to bolt on for $385.00 each. They could certainly offer a Pontiac iron head, a much, much smaller and less complicated casting for $1000.00 a pair. NOW we are talking! That's where the volume market is. It would be much more difficult for the Chinese to screw up an iron head IMO.

I agree that is where Pontiac aftermarket has a big hole. If you buy a set or ported iron heads from SD its basically the same as off the shelf aluminum heads.

SBCs have the bolt on upgrade of cheap iron vortec heads, if Pontiac had the same option. A mild upgrade in an affordable iron head, setup to handle aftermarket cams, I think it would sell well.

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by GoatZillaRacing

Max Lift: .580"
Coil Bind: .740"
Intake Install: 135lbs @ 1.8
Exhaust Install: 135lbs @ 1.8

Don't get/understand the .160" difference between max lift and coil bind.

Well aware there has to be some slack there. Just thinking .050"~.060" was the safe range. Like these heads should be good for another .100" lift or so.

May be off my rocker this AM
Clay

[GoatZillaRacing]

Originally Posted by "QUICK-SILVER"

Don't get/understand the .160" difference between max lift and coil bind.

Well aware there has to be some slack there. Just thinking .050"~.060" was the safe range. Like these heads should be good for another .100" lift or so.

May be off my rocker this AM
Clay

These are set up for hyd flat tappet and/or hyd roller applications. My guess is that .580 is the max lift because more would create excessive spring pressure on a flat tappet application. Should be good to .680 on a hyd roller.
Either way, you or I would set our springs up correctly for what ever cam we were running. Example. I'm putting roller springs on these very heads for a solid roller just to test.

[72projectbird]

Originally Posted by cfmcnc

If the Pontiac communitity does not support Edelbrock ,Eddy seeing sales fall will Not lower the price ,they will discontinue the head as they have recently done with several heads and manifolds.

I don't know about that. Edelbrock has been sticking it to Pontiac owners forever, so if cheaper alternatives that work just as good are offered, I'm going with the alternative.

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by "QUICK-SILVER"

Don't get/understand the .160" difference between max lift and coil bind.

Well aware there has to be some slack there. Just thinking .050"~.060" was the safe range. Like these heads should be good for another .100" lift or so.

May be off my rocker this AM
Clay

Best I can tell in the pics is five rounds or four air gaps. So the .160" difference would be .040" per gap running .580" valve lift. Some might call that a tad on the tight side. Should be safe enough for a true 'street' car application. And/or, keep max RPMs in a factoryish redline range.

Clay