[Keith Seymore]

...

Originally Posted by 1funride

As a side note, many will know, some wont. A static balance works off gravity, a tire can be statically balanced but not dynamically. Static balance works in one plane (call it vertical, up and down with respect to road), there is a second plane formed when a tire spins (call it horizontal, about the tire axle centerline). Dynamic balance is needed when a tire has a heavy side or heavy side to side, as it spins the heavy spot(s) want to move to the center of the tire, which creates a wobble and vibration as the heavy sides fight to get to center. If the side to side weight imbalance was the same, the tire would balance on a bubble balancer, even an axle type bearing balancer (heavy side rolls down) wouldn't pick it up. The increased width in tires magnifies the issue as well. I thought a bubble balancer was doing same job as a spin balancer until I dug into it , balance is balance weight is weight right? Nope, not exactly, and definitely not for dynamic imbalance. There are also a few other tire factors that can cause vibration but are out of my spending limit to even consider, ill be happy with a static and dynamic balance. See pic.

Reminds me of a joke:

An engineer went to get new tires put on his car and was standing there watching the young man mount and balance the tires.

While he was working the young man said "...do you know why I put some of the weights on the front side and some on the back side?"

The engineer puffed up a bit and said "well...actually...I do. If you put them all on one side then it can allow the imbalance force to create a moment arm with a force vector in proportion to the wheel offset; if that is not resolved then it can result in a dynamic oscillation at freeway speeds."

The young man blinked a few times and said "yeah, cause if I don't it'll wobble".

K

[Chief of the 60's]

LOL

[dataway]

I love nerd humor. Note the location of the bank ... guy was a Nuke.

[gtofreek]

I've had better success with old school bubble balancers. You can get them pretty much perfect with that, but not with a spin balancer. They have tolerance ranges.

[Chief of the 60's]

Small wheels (13's-14's) will have issues if off 1/4oz., low profile tires will have issues if off 1oz., 15's and up with normal height sidewall is much more forgiving. I bubble balanced those 4 - 17" Chrysler wheels in 15 minutes using tape-on weights. No way could I have done them that quick with a spin balancer which is why my spin balancer doesn't see much work.

Also, if you are going to use a spin balancer, it is best to use the lug mount adaptor and mount the wheel via the lugs. This is mainly for aluminum wheels. Steel wheels don't matter.

[78w72]

honeycombs are steel wheels & require the lug centric adapter to spin balance properly.

[Formulajones]

I also have a balancer that does it with the wheels on the car, balances the rotors and drums and all.....

So if you have a problem child this machine gets it done.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by 78w72

honeycombs are steel wheels & require the lug centric adapter to spin balance properly.

Yep, that's because the center part that the cone would usually center the wheel with is made of the urethane with a small metal sleeve trapped within it and actually isn't part of the steel wheel itself.

[Chief of the 60's]

I knew I should have stated "standard" steel wheels.

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

I also have a balancer that does it with the wheels on the car, balances the rotors and drums and all.....

So if you have a problem child this machine gets it done.

True but almost useless on the drive wheels though.

[Formulajones]

Works on all wheels, front and back.

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Works on all wheels, front and back.

How are you going to obtain a proper wheel balance on a posi rear wheel or a FWD front wheel? The harmonics that transfers through the drivetrain makes it almost impossible. This is why shops stopped using them and they became obsolete.

[Formulajones]

That's the whole purpose of them, to balance everything that is rotating. They actually work really well with practice.

They are probably seldom seen these days for a number of reasons. Techs with lack of knowledge on how to use them, and I'd bet OSHA these days has a spaz attack when they see one, with all the safety hazards these things present LOL Probably raises the insurance rates at the shop

You can get that wheel going 100 mph, and if the tread has pebbles in it, it'll put an eye out, and you don't want to stick a finger in there or you'll pull back a bloody stump. LOL

[Chief of the 60's]

We'll have to agree to disagree on the drive wheel balance but I have heard my fair share of rocks hitting a wall. LOL!

And yes, dumbasses with smart phones couldn't operate a Hunter Head balancer if their life depended on it.

[dataway]

So now people with a phone that isn't 20 years old are dumbasses? Jeez, this went off the rails.

[Chief of the 60's]

Trust me, it relates.

[1968GTO421]

In an aside, roughly 30 years ago I bought tires from a guy with a small shop. Before he actually balanced the tire, he put the "common steel wheel" on the bubble balancer, noted the heavy side of the wheel and marked it. He did the same with the tire to find the heavy side of it. Then when he mounted the tire on the wheel. he put the heavy sides of the tire and wheel opposite each other. After the tire was on the wheel, he then balanced the whole assembly. He told me that procedure minimized the number of weights he had to use to balance the tire/wheel assembly with lighter weights generally being the only ones required and gave a better balance. After he retired not long after this, I used regular local tire places who chuckled and said he was nuts to do this, the dynamic balancer would solve all imbalances.. I still think the old guy had a method to his "madness". If I had a bubble balancer, I think I would probably try this method.

[track73]

At one time the hole for the valve stem was drilled on the heaviest side of the wheel and the tire had a mark on the lightest side of the tire . So we told our students to line the mark on the tire with the hole for the valve stem. That way you would use fewer weights to balance the wheel assembly. I didn't know if the tires are still that way or not. I know tire busters just mount tires as fast as they can now and use computerized balancers.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by 1968GTO421

In an aside, roughly 30 years ago I bought tires from a guy with a small shop. Before he actually balanced the tire, he put the "common steel wheel" on the bubble balancer, noted the heavy side of the wheel and marked it. He did the same with the tire to find the heavy side of it. Then when he mounted the tire on the wheel. he put the heavy sides of the tire and wheel opposite each other. After the tire was on the wheel, he then balanced the whole assembly. He told me that procedure minimized the number of weights he had to use to balance the tire/wheel assembly with lighter weights generally being the only ones required and gave a better balance. After he retired not long after this, I used regular local tire places who chuckled and said he was nuts to do this, the dynamic balancer would solve all imbalances.. I still think the old guy had a method to his "madness". If I had a bubble balancer, I think I would probably try this method.

We've done this with drag slicks (on a spin balancer).

If the assembly is way out, then break the beads down and rotate the tire on the rim 180 degrees.

Usually it will balance up after that.

K

[78w72]

Originally Posted by track73

At one time the hole for the valve stem was drilled on the heaviest side of the wheel and the tire had a mark on the lightest side of the tire . So we told our students to line the mark on the tire with the hole for the valve stem. That way you would use fewer weights to balance the wheel assembly. I didn't know if the tires are still that way or not. I know tire busters just mount tires as fast as they can now and use computerized balancers.

they still mark the tires, or at least some companies do, i just bought some M/T sportsman tires & they are marked with a yellow dot on the back side. pretty sure my new BFG radials are too.

i took the M/T tires to be mounted at a local family owned shop i use & asked the guy, who is somewhat of a car guy, about the marking & positioning it at the valve stem hole, he said he doesnt bother with that these days since tires are so inconsistent, said hes done it lined up & not lined up & the results are always different.

funny thing is when i got them home & looked at the weights, one of the tires was just a bout lined up with the mark by chance, & sure enough its got more weights than the one that was not any where near lined up.