[wh33lman]

So how bad is this shortage of cam shaft cores?

I see on Facebook some have been waiting since Sept. 2022 for a cam from Comp Cams. One post claimed inside knowledge that no cams were going out the door, as no cores are available.

I'd also be concerned about the quality control once production resumes, with so many back orders.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by wh33lman

So how bad is this shortage of cam shaft cores?

I see on Facebook some have been waiting since Sept. 2022 for a cam from Comp Cams. One post claimed inside knowledge that no cams were going out the door, as no cores are available.

I'd also be concerned about the quality control once production resumes, with so many back orders.

At the Pri Show, November 2022, I spoke to Comp, Isky, Clay Smith, Lunati, Erson, Bullet/Ultradyne, Crower and a couple others. They ALL get their cast cores from CMC Camshaft Machine Company in MI. They do some billet cores as well. LSM makes some billet cores as well. That's about it for USA production. And that's a problem. Legacy engines like a Pontiac, (years out of production), are extremely low priority. All the cam grinders are saying it could be up to 2 more years before cast cores will be back in stock. Billet cores a little sooner. Yes the shortage is real and it's bad. If you have any decent old cams, consider having them reground and treated.

[keith646671]

WOW, pretty cool information, found both my intake and exhaust lobe in that list The Kool-Aid 444 "Long-rod 400" project continues. Now a part of Harold WILL be in it Alot of other people too, including HO Racing from back in the day. Will take pains to not booger my FT break-in. Full break-in on outer only, additional full separate break-in on dual .. isky 5105 dual spring. Any ideas on enhancing breakin procedure would be appreciated. Will get Butler oil pump prime tool. Has forged chromed SCAT crank, Cat H-beam, Ross flat top, Howards 411391-08, KB pins, Rhoads V-Max and likely Elgin full roller, ported 96s Heads still in process.
Have several old cams that appear to be in as new condition. Have learned how to check "taper" on lobes and am setting up to check them and lifters I decide to use with them. Might actually send Rhoads for 444 to Powell Machine to modify once I have my Howards cam measurements.

[Nobuddy]

Plus there is CWC, the foundry that manufacturers the cast cores used by CMC. CWC is owned by Textron who is owned by Kautex. Kautex is global and does a lot of OEM work so I expect old Pontiac or any aftermarket inventory is not their first priority. But that is just cast cores, no idea who all makes billet cores for rollers.

[Shiny]

Originally Posted by Nobuddy

Plus there is CWC, the foundry that manufacturers the cast cores used by CMC. CWC is owned by Textron who is owned by Kautex. Kautex is global and does a lot of OEM work so I expect old Pontiac or any aftermarket inventory is not their first priority. But that is just cast cores, no idea who all makes billet cores for rollers.

Thanks for sharing this. It's interesting to see the back stories.

A look at the CWC foundry site (here) makes me wonder why they can't deliver cores. They seem huge - 60,000 cams/week! What do you think is the annual market for cast Pontiac cams?

I can understand a small custom grinder diverting resources to more profitable markets but it's hard to believe the foundry would completely shut off a larger customer like CMC. But I guess they did!

I chuckled over this statement by CWC: "We make approximately 5 million flame-hardened camshafts annually and have never had a failure in the field."

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by Shiny

I chuckled over this statement by CWC: "We make approximately 5 million flame-hardened camshafts annually and have never had a failure in the field."

That's because most camshaft failures happen in engines.....

[keith646671]

Just got my Enduro car running. Oil was dark, no water gas smell or grit on stick. Tank(boat tank in trunk) bone dry(good) so put fresh super and cranked, old qjet has never been off the factory 4x 400. Started right up when got gas. Had same lifter tick Ive noticed many times, but has been sitting for many years. Let warm up and as temp goes up tick disappears as always has. Was thinking cam or lifters might need to be replaced, I have several cams. But once warm she sounds very good. 60psi initially let her run for awhile .. temp a little over 200 in gear idles like kitten at 650rpm, solid 30 psi oil pressure ... sounds very sweet with just glasspacks on straight pipes Just like at last race Was alittle low on coolant so will take over with oil change. Bought some German stuff Liqui Moly lifter lube additive for Valvoline 50W change I will do next. Try vs Lucas. 2 PFL1A remote filters in cab so 5-6 qts oil with remote I believe. Factory dipstick to fill line. Really should take off Q and at least clean it put new acc pump and power valve. Same with plugs. I think old Accel.

[lust4speed]

Wait was not too bad. Received two special order hydraulic roller cams last week from Comp five weeks after ordering, and the third ordered at the same time seems to be MIA but they are checking on it.

[mgarblik]

Roller cams are not quite as bad as cast flat tappet cores. The small aftermarket companies are all looking at India and China for a reliable secondary source for cores. Cores not requiring a distributor gear can made from round billet on a lathe. There are options for those. Flat tappet cores with a distributor gear that many were buying for $89.99-$200.00 for a custom grind are the real road block. Not much incentive to push production of these parts when they have a huge backlog of $1000.00 billet cams. I understand the reasons, just don't like having only limited, expensive choices.

[keith646671]

Enduro car, only run in summer/fall, engine loose, 300 laps on it, but doesnt smoke still when you whack it, ... really mostly what I have on hand and I like the smell of Valvoline It is the racing one too, supposed to change 500 miles .. supposedly better lubrication. Never delved into the reason why. I like the smell of B+M Trickshift too And Sunoco 260.

[lust4speed]

Originally Posted by lust4speed

Wait was not too bad. Received two special order hydraulic roller cams last week from Comp five weeks after ordering, and the third ordered at the same time seems to be MIA but they are checking on it.

OK, that third cam of our three cam order isn't coming in for at least another month, and the Comp tech says the other two cams were the last HR blanks on the shelf.

[wh33lman]

Originally Posted by lust4speed

Wait was not too bad. Received two special order hydraulic roller cams last week from Comp five weeks after ordering, and the third ordered at the same time seems to be MIA but they are checking on it.

You are lucky... I have been waiting since early Dec. for a custom HR via Comp.

[wh33lman]

Good Info .
Might not be the year to plan for a cam upgrade.

[JacintasHot]

Hasn't been a good idea since 2020.

[michaelfind]

This conversation makes me wonder what is the best way to store and preserve the used Pontiac cams I have right now. They are all still good but just sitting on a shelf getting surface rust where I live.

[Jack Gifford]

Originally Posted by michaelfind

... on a shelf getting surface rust...

Use a shelf that's climate-controlled; bedroom, etc.

[Trevor78]

So where are the cores coming from, USA or China?

[wh33lman]

I was told that roller cams were billet cores, not cast.
Is this not the case anymore?

I cancelled my order, and will go back to one of my other cams for the season....but not before one last look around.

[brut4s]

Wow glad I have a few on the shelf

[Tom Vaught]

A) I made a post about CWC and their casting capabilities about 10 years ago on the board. Yes they are located in Michigan. Just like CMC (Camshaft Machine Company)
is located in Jackson Michigan, just like Melling (who also makes oil pumps).

B) If you are lucky, CMC and Melling combined might make a few thousand camshaft in a years time.

C) CMC years ago was owned by Crane Camshafts (Harvey Crane).
Harold Brookshire and Don Hubbard were both employees of Crane Cams.

Don H (RIP), Glenn Corwin, (RIP) and Harold Brookshire were all employees of Crane Cams at one time.

Crane made the first Roller Cams (Ford Engines) for high volume production vehicle at Jackson, Michigan.

Glenn Corwin was a "PONTIAC GUY", so as long as he was alive, he made sure some
Pontiac Roller Cam designs were offered for sale.

But most all manufacturers have gone to Roller Cams in production vehicles.

Tom V.