[wh33lman]

So how bad is this shortage of cam shaft cores?

I see on Facebook some have been waiting since Sept. 2022 for a cam from Comp Cams. One post claimed inside knowledge that no cams were going out the door, as no cores are available.

I'd also be concerned about the quality control once production resumes, with so many back orders.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by wh33lman

So how bad is this shortage of cam shaft cores?

I see on Facebook some have been waiting since Sept. 2022 for a cam from Comp Cams. One post claimed inside knowledge that no cams were going out the door, as no cores are available.

I'd also be concerned about the quality control once production resumes, with so many back orders.

At the Pri Show, November 2022, I spoke to Comp, Isky, Clay Smith, Lunati, Erson, Bullet/Ultradyne, Crower and a couple others. They ALL get their cast cores from CMC Camshaft Machine Company in MI. They do some billet cores as well. LSM makes some billet cores as well. That's about it for USA production. And that's a problem. Legacy engines like a Pontiac, (years out of production), are extremely low priority. All the cam grinders are saying it could be up to 2 more years before cast cores will be back in stock. Billet cores a little sooner. Yes the shortage is real and it's bad. If you have any decent old cams, consider having them reground and treated.

[Nobuddy]

Plus there is CWC, the foundry that manufacturers the cast cores used by CMC. CWC is owned by Textron who is owned by Kautex. Kautex is global and does a lot of OEM work so I expect old Pontiac or any aftermarket inventory is not their first priority. But that is just cast cores, no idea who all makes billet cores for rollers.

[lust4speed]

Wait was not too bad. Received two special order hydraulic roller cams last week from Comp five weeks after ordering, and the third ordered at the same time seems to be MIA but they are checking on it.

[mgarblik]

Roller cams are not quite as bad as cast flat tappet cores. The small aftermarket companies are all looking at India and China for a reliable secondary source for cores. Cores not requiring a distributor gear can made from round billet on a lathe. There are options for those. Flat tappet cores with a distributor gear that many were buying for $89.99-$200.00 for a custom grind are the real road block. Not much incentive to push production of these parts when they have a huge backlog of $1000.00 billet cams. I understand the reasons, just don't like having only limited, expensive choices.

[Shiny]

Originally Posted by Nobuddy

Plus there is CWC, the foundry that manufacturers the cast cores used by CMC. CWC is owned by Textron who is owned by Kautex. Kautex is global and does a lot of OEM work so I expect old Pontiac or any aftermarket inventory is not their first priority. But that is just cast cores, no idea who all makes billet cores for rollers.

Thanks for sharing this. It's interesting to see the back stories.

A look at the CWC foundry site (here) makes me wonder why they can't deliver cores. They seem huge - 60,000 cams/week! What do you think is the annual market for cast Pontiac cams?

I can understand a small custom grinder diverting resources to more profitable markets but it's hard to believe the foundry would completely shut off a larger customer like CMC. But I guess they did!

I chuckled over this statement by CWC: "We make approximately 5 million flame-hardened camshafts annually and have never had a failure in the field."

[wh33lman]

Good Info .
Might not be the year to plan for a cam upgrade.

[JacintasHot]

Hasn't been a good idea since 2020.

[michaelfind]

This conversation makes me wonder what is the best way to store and preserve the used Pontiac cams I have right now. They are all still good but just sitting on a shelf getting surface rust where I live.

[Jack Gifford]

Originally Posted by michaelfind

... on a shelf getting surface rust...

Use a shelf that's climate-controlled; bedroom, etc.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by Shiny

I chuckled over this statement by CWC: "We make approximately 5 million flame-hardened camshafts annually and have never had a failure in the field."

That's because most camshaft failures happen in engines.....

[lust4speed]

Originally Posted by lust4speed

Wait was not too bad. Received two special order hydraulic roller cams last week from Comp five weeks after ordering, and the third ordered at the same time seems to be MIA but they are checking on it.

OK, that third cam of our three cam order isn't coming in for at least another month, and the Comp tech says the other two cams were the last HR blanks on the shelf.

[Trevor78]

So where are the cores coming from, USA or China?

[wh33lman]

Originally Posted by lust4speed

Wait was not too bad. Received two special order hydraulic roller cams last week from Comp five weeks after ordering, and the third ordered at the same time seems to be MIA but they are checking on it.

You are lucky... I have been waiting since early Dec. for a custom HR via Comp.

[wh33lman]

I was told that roller cams were billet cores, not cast.
Is this not the case anymore?

I cancelled my order, and will go back to one of my other cams for the season....but not before one last look around.

[brut4s]

Wow glad I have a few on the shelf

[Tom Vaught]

A) I made a post about CWC and their casting capabilities about 10 years ago on the board. Yes they are located in Michigan. Just like CMC (Camshaft Machine Company)
is located in Jackson Michigan, just like Melling (who also makes oil pumps).

B) If you are lucky, CMC and Melling combined might make a few thousand camshaft in a years time.

C) CMC years ago was owned by Crane Camshafts (Harvey Crane).
Harold Brookshire and Don Hubbard were both employees of Crane Cams.

Don H (RIP), Glenn Corwin, (RIP) and Harold Brookshire were all employees of Crane Cams at one time.

Crane made the first Roller Cams (Ford Engines) for high volume production vehicle at Jackson, Michigan.

Glenn Corwin was a "PONTIAC GUY", so as long as he was alive, he made sure some
Pontiac Roller Cam designs were offered for sale.

But most all manufacturers have gone to Roller Cams in production vehicles.

Tom V.

[turbo69bird]

I was speaking to a couple manufacturers today . Most said they were out to july for cams for Pontiacs. Cam motion who I used for years basically said they didn’t give a crap about Pontiacs anymore. They are all Ls now . Useless conversation w them
At best.
Comp made it clear all cores came from
The same place when asked about recent failures. Said we sell more so we have more failures but it’s all the same for everyone. They were interested in discussing cams for Pontiacs and felt like they wanted to help find the right grind .

The best conversation I had was probably with Howard’s.
I was basically talking w them about a combo where I traded compression for stroke and wanted to know what they felt, I should alter for this change . Because that’s a fairly common change these days. .

[mgarblik]

I have to say a few words about Howards Cams. Never used any of their stuff until about 2 years ago. No real reason, just never did. With the core shortage and parts shortage in general, my student's had to start looking for alternatives. They began buying and using Howards stuff. I measured cam lobes, made some timing maps and checked their springs and lifters. I have to say at their price points, their parts look and seem to perform very well. Overall I am really impressed with them. Spent a fair amount of time talking with them at PRI and told them my experience. They use Morel roller lifters BTW. For a custom cam grind, I am still using Ultradyne/Bullet almost exclusively. But for off the shelf stuff and valvetrain accessories, Howards has a nice catalog of parts and very good "in stock" percentage. We are currently using their micro-polished valve springs on Eric's aluminum road race Pontiac. Springs were much nicer and more accurate than the Lunati springs we started out with. They were so bad, we didn't even run them on the dyno. 20-25% spring pressure variation new, unacceptable. Howards's were about 5%. Same price range.

[KEN CROCIE]

Got my custom roller from Comp Friday