[Franked]

Thanks for all the response, I feel it can handle 10-1, this guy builds some badass stuff though, so I don't really want to argue with him.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by Franked

Well, I got my heads a few weeks ago, they are KAUFFMAN D-ports, not Edelbrock D-ports, not sure why I thought that, must have been confused during the conversation, when ordering. I have them at my machine shop, so my machinist guy can bash on them, he is super picky, and builds a lot of high RPM racing stuff that wins a LOT, so I can listen to his bitching. He keeps telling me I don't want over 9.25 to 1, the stroker kit/head combo is designed for 10-1 or 10.3 to 1, Kauffman didn't have larger than 85cc chambered heads, so we may be putting thick gaskets, and or leaving the deck height as high as we can.
My Machinist guy says with CA's piss gas (max 91 octane) I really don't want over 9.25-1, or I will have to mix in race gas, and/or have no timing advance.
Any thoughts on this? the gas here does suck for high compression.
Frank

Don,t put the thick head gaskets on. 9.25 is a great number, for iron heads.
You can run 2 full points more CR with aluminum heads.
Trust me, you want over 10-1 CR with aluminum heads or you are selling your engine power short.
You could run 87 octane with 10-1 in a lot of cases.

[Formulajones]

I've been pushing the 91 pump gas for years here in Arizona, same junk California has. I'm running an 11:1 engine with iron heads fine on it, it likes 36 degrees of timing where it made best power, my bird is 10.13:1 with it's factory iron heads fine on it with best power at 34 degrees, both of these cars are daily driven.
We actually have aluminum headed cars that are a pinch more conservative on compression which is the opposite of what you would expect. One being 10.2:1 that runs with 38 degrees of timing and another with 10.84:1 that likes 34 degrees of timing. Got a couple more with iron heads that have over 10:1 compression and currently building another aluminum headed engine that should end up with compression somewhere in the mid 10's.

Everything runs on the 91 cat pee we have available.

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by Franked

Thanks for all the response, I feel it can handle 10-1, this guy builds some badass stuff though, so I don't really want to argue with him.

Not going to get many answers when the question is lost 19 pages deep in a thread.

Your compression should be matched up with the rest of your parts. The compression increase from aluminum heads varies, and not every case is the same. Small cam, manifolds and stock OTB parts (like a 260 cfm d ports KRE) with highway gears, you may only want 9.2 compression. Big cam, headers, 325 cfm ported KRE d port, single plane, deep gears…you may want 11:1.

My Pontiac 461 is well over 11:1 compression on 91 octane. It is a street engine, runs full timing, and has ported iron heads.

[1969GPSJ]

Franked, for what it's worth, I would hate to see you end up unhappy with your build, but these are just educated opinions, experiences and keyboard warrior stuff on the forum - maybe we are right, maybe we are wrong.

First question I would wonder about is the badass stuff he builds Pontiac? If so, that is a good start, but not essential - but if not, they really must listen to you about the nuances of building a pontiac engine.

Then, if he has built a number of successful Pontiacs has he built a number of aluminum headed Ponchos? Ultimately, what is his specialty? Not everybody is a "jack of all trades" "I can build anything and have it run well" builder like Smoky Yunick was (and others like him).

I would still highly recommend that you talk to Kauffman directly about the compression tolerance of their d port heads, and their thoughts on the proposed combination.
They have built record winning engines. They have hundreds of hours of dyno time with those specific heads and a variety of builds. I guarantee that no other builder has done that with Kauffman D port heads.

After talking with Kauffman, then I would suggest you sit down and have a discussion with your engine builder.

If you feel that you have to walk on eggshells to avoid pissing off your builder and your builder is a "my way or the highway kind of guy" and doesn't want to listen to your inquiries and suggestions and is stuck on low compression (and anything under 10.5:1 would be considered low) with aluminum heads, I would suggest that you may want to seek another engine builder. If a builder behaves that way, that level of arrogance is not a sign of confidence, it is the sign of bully focused on taking your hard earned money and not really caring what product they deliver to the customer.
You are spending a lot of money on the engine build to have the combination end up not working well.

I look at engine builders in kind of the same way I look at physicians/surgeons (and I used to work with a lot of those, as well as engine builders - the art of medicine is somewhat similar to the art of mechanical "stuff" and engine building - just the body is a very complex biological machine). I come to them (both) as knowledgeable about what I want to accomplish as reasonably possible, so that I know and what I want to do is likely to work out well.
I observe if they are listening to me, and then listen to their suggestions. If they are arrogant, and don't at listen to what I am trying to discuss, and do not calmly and rationally lay out their approach and why it is better than what I was thinking I wanted to do, then I will respectfully thank them for their time and find another option. Good luck with your build! I look forward to hearing about a successful project.

[1969GPSJ]

Jay, if anyone goes to the new posts, or today's posts buttons at the top of the page, or if they have subscribed to the thread, they will find this thread, and it will take them directly to this part of the conversation. So it isn't really lost.. I got an email notification for this thread when Franked posted an update.

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by 1969GPSJ

Jay, if anyone goes to the new posts, or today's posts buttons at the top of the page, or if they have subscribed to the thread, they will find this thread, and it will take them directly to this part of the conversation. So it isn't really lost.. I got an email notification for this thread when Franked posted an update.

Carry on then…

[Stan65]

Just started looking into the retofit roller stuff for my current build. Just finished reading the entire thread. I have also watched some videos on the net. Has anyone cosidered making pontiac specific dog bones to be used with the Ford spider?

Couple questions for anyone who knows. What material is an original Small Block Chevy dog bone made out of? Like steel type or is it powdered metal etc. What rockwell hardness does it need to be?

Whats peoples thoughts on the double fork like the Ford vs the complete rings like the SBC?

I am looking for a SBC one to determine the harness and material if nobody knows off hand.

I am going to look into making a set with my local Machine/Fab shop.

If I go through with it, what would people be willing to pay for a set if they are NICE pieces. This will help with my buy in if I can sell a few.

Thanks,
Stuart "Stan" Landreth

[Singleton]

I’m not sure that you could sell many of those custom pieces. The whole point of the retro-fit is that all the parts are cheap and readily available over the counter at any parts store. Once you introduce custom one-off pieces or special lifters (gatorman), the whole affair starts to lose its appeal.

[Stan65]

Singleton,

For the guy that wants to keep the "EGR" valley pan, there are no other hydraulic roller choices I am aware of. It would definitely be for the "mild" build setup.

It's just a spit ball idea. Not in it to make a business. It's just a hobby and I like a challenge.

Here's to the "you can't fit a finned aluminum timing cover under the water pump on a 409" so I made my own. It was marketed for a few years by a buddy until he retired. I have the knowledge and ability, and he had the CNC mill.

Thanks,
Stan

[Formulajones]

Any reason why you want to keep an EGR valley pan?

Just thinking out loud but it seems it would be easier and much cheaper to just modify the EGR pan to work with retro lifters rather than reinvent the wheel trying to design a lifter to fit the pan.

There has to be a way to make the pan fit with a little time spent....??? If it were me I'd ditch it for a regular valley pan anyway.

[Stan65]

Formulajones,

No other reason other than I want to keep the numbers / date code matching components including the intake manifold on my bird.

And if it weren't for people that like a challenge, we would all be walking. lol.

I typically don't take the easy path. Part of the fun with this hobby for me is overcoming obstacles. Easiest way to get something done is to tell me it can't be done.

Last challenge was to build a early bird from sheet metal panels. So I did it.

[Formulajones]

That EGR pan would look good hanging on the wall next to all the other stuff

[Stan65]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

That EGR pan would look good hanging on the wall next to all the other stuff

Ha Ha. It's not on the wall any longer, It's a car now.

[tempest1964]

Looks like you do fine work Stan!

[Skip Fix]

Originally Posted by Stan65

Singleton,

For the guy that wants to keep the "EGR" valley pan, there are no other hydraulic roller choices I am aware of. It would definitely be for the "mild" build setup.

It's just a spit ball idea. Not in it to make a business. It's just a hobby and I like a challenge.

Here's to the "you can't fit a finned aluminum timing cover under the water pump on a 409" so I made my own. It was marketed for a few years by a buddy until he retired. I have the knowledge and ability, and he had the CNC mill.

Thanks,
Stan

Nice cover!

[1968GTO421]

Originally Posted by tempest1964

Looks like you do fine work Stan!

X2 !

[grivera]

Impressive work, Stan! If you really need a challenge I'd like to introduce you to my 69 Lemans!

[Stan65]

Ha ha. Thanks guys!

Now anyone have any of the specs I need? Will be buying some parts to reverse engineer otherwise.

Thanks,
Stan

[mysticmissle]

Paul k has a set up for sale
Right now in the classifieds it’s just a ford Motorsport retro fit link with some
Sanded down dog bones