[Ron Landis]

what would "memo 2-170" indicate on a Judge invoice, along with "special equip" @ $105.32. This info on a RA IV Judge "program" car, that is no options except auto trans, console and 4.33 gears. No heater, no radio and no sound deadening. Found with 55 miles on odometer and never licenced. Sold for $2390.31 new.

[SWEETJUDGE]

SOUNDS LIKE A CAR of ALL MUSCLE no frills

[racerboy]

Sounds like those miles were racked up one 1/4 at a time.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by jegstek

what would "memo 2-170" indicate on a Judge invoice, along with "special equip" @ $105.32. This info on a RA IV Judge "program" car, that is no options except auto trans, console and 4.33 gears. No heater, no radio and no sound deadening. Found with 55 miles on odometer and never licenced. Sold for $2390.31 new.

It indicates the Car had power steering option. Just Kidding.

Steve and I tried to gather info on two 70 Judges invoiced to Knafel Pontiac with the SPEC EQUIP $105.32 and memo notations. Knafel claims that at least one of them was V equipped by engineering. Not many seem to believe Knafel or his sons testimony.

HOWEVER, if it is invoiced to Royal Pontiac - you could probably get Jim Wangers to have everyone believe it was Hemi-Headed. Look at what they did for the 69 Bobcat Car. PHS documented WT, but most everyone will swear to you it was an IV off the line. He was good.

Bottom line, it's a 70 IV Judge that had something special on it, in it, with it, or without it. The world may never know. Cool Car regardless, got any pics ?

Wonder why the price is so low ? That's even below base cost, and it's not a base Car by your description, can you give more details from the invoice or post the invoice ?

[Todd Kozak]

when I worked for Chrysler, sometimes guys at the plant would order a vehicle for their own. when that order came in , it was flagged and the guy would get to walk down the line with it and the line would add whatever options or combos the guy wanted. It was common knowledge you would order a base vehicle at your dealer but when it was delivered at the dealer it was loaded if thats the way you wanted it. It was priced as a base vehicle too and it caused a lot of dealers to scratch their heads in disbelief . I can imagine Pontiac Motor Division operated much the same way. Especially a big performance dealer or a named racer or an employee of PMD would get whatever they desired.

[Steve Hoog]

Ron

The guy that did the "memo" and at Pontiac, tossed them in the trash after the car was finished. This will make the fifth one with similar notations, that I know of assuming all 5 are different cars. They probably are.

"Memo" was for special handling, such as a rearend or custom paint. The "105.32 special equip"; that is the million dollar question.

This I do know; the Tin Indian and the Silver Judge are built less dum dum. DaJudge might chime in if he knows anything special about the Invoice he posted, the fourth one was sent to me in confidence and no details.

Is your car a 69 or 70?

[Steve Hoog]

Additional info; the forth one is a 4sp which would make all 5 different cars. This one also has "serv-new-plt sr-blank plt 30.00", not real sure what that is.

70 IV car with zero options, built right after the two Knafel cars but he marked out the dealer and VIN. I'll go back and take another look at Dajudge's.

[Steve Hoog]

memo 2-38 on the Silver Knafel car 11/69 ish build
memo 2-39 on the Tin Indian consecutive order after the Silver car
memo 2-53 on the Secret invoice built 12/69 ish
memo 2-167 on DaJudge's but he cut off the date shipped
memo 2-170 on yours

I see a pattern, makes one wonder where the other 165 memo cars are for 70? Assuming they are all 70 cars, which it looks that way. If you tell us yours is a 70 built after 12/69, I think it's a done deal.

[The Boss]

COPO cars!

[Steve Hoog]

The only other place I've seen the "memo" is on the 63 and 64 SD cars, now those were some serious race cars. I don't think all these 70 cars were all out racers, but certainly 4 of them were darn close to it. DaJudge's invoice seems to be too loaded for a race car, so my guess is it was for a movie star or something along that line.

Also keep in mind that some of the SD cars showed 389 2BBL engines on the invoices, yet it seems to be taboo to think some of the 70 cars could have been handled in the same way.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Cool Car regardless, got any pics ?

Wonder why the price is so low ? That's even below base cost, and it's not a base Car by your description, can you give more details from the invoice or post the invoice ?

oops meant to say it was a Super Heavy Daddy Cool Car instead of just Cool Car.

What's up with that below factory cost discount price Man ? This Car has a story I would really like to hear someday.

STEVE: That's a good point about the other 165 possibilities below 170. If and when more of these get discovered maybe we can have the dealers names pinned to them and see if the memo number runs in a dealer pattern or just random by dealer and more specific by date. There may not have been an actual 170 SPEC EQUIP memo cars built - per se'.

[Steve Hoog]

Seems strange that past the SD cars, only 70's have turned up like this. I would have to think there are other years with this billing.

That price he listed is at the top of all the invoices like this I have, I don't think it was the actual billing price, but a base cost. IMO

I'm hoping Ron will share more with us. If not I'll have to go up there and make him drink large amounts of beer until he talks.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

The one thing I find the most interesting about this deal so far is that ALL the ones that have documented so far as having this SPECIAL EQUIP $105.32 have been 1970 Ram Air IV Judges.

And the fact that not all 1970 IV Judges have this on the invoice is what really keeps it interesting. I hope more of these surface along with more information. Did Jegs take a vacation ?

Here is the White 70 IV Judge - Tin Indian Race Car invoice - in case anyone needs to be brought up to speed.

[R 70 Judge]

Do any of these cars still have the original #'s matching engines? Anything in common that is missing on all of these special cars? Carburetor? Exhaust manifiolds?

2-38 Judge

[Steve Hoog]

Arlen Vanke says the motor in the White car is the one they got from engineering, that is as close as will get on the two Knafel cars. The engine was reported stolen out of the open garage while out of the car on the Silver one.

I have the strange numbers on the White car at work, I can post them again when I get there.

[Steve Hoog]

According to Arlen Vanke it has the motor in it that they received from the factory. He said it went to engineering before it was shipped to Knafel.

9792968 K1 68 cast on back.

545687 EO-3777 #12 stamped on front.

[dr-doug]

Could the 105.32 be for the special exhaust that supposedly never made it to production? It has to be something that was added, not subtracted from the car, unless they were heater delete cars that required a special part or two. Does someone here actually own one of these, or is it all just paper, and history?
Also it's possible that the missing memo's your talking about were not Judges,maybe special Grand prix's or Trans Am's, "Regular" GTO's or something else.Just some thought's , I know nuh'thang.DW

[Steve Hoog]

Doug

I would guess yes that they could have had memo's on other cars besides GTO's. I've heard from some one still working at GM that knew the guy in charge of the memo's, and the way it was told to me I can assume other cars were involved.

Yes two of the Knafel cars are currently owned, I have seen one of them. I don't think it means anything accross the board, I think each car could have it own unique "option if you will". Three cars if you include the one Ron started the thread on.

[Bet Winner]

I have not read every word of this thread, so I may not make sense. (I need to get back to work!! You guys are killing my productivity--lol.) But I read years ago that some of the 70 Ram Air IV's came with "super duty" connecting rods. They were called Ram Air IV Super Duty's by some. If this is true, I'm not sure if they got Ram Air V rods or old 421 super duty rods. I cannot remember. You could order the old 421 super duty rods back then I believe because I have an over the counter NOS set of 421 super duty rods, and the guy I bought them from purchased them over the counter when he worked for Pontiac in the early 70's he said.

I believe what I read said that these cars got the old super duty rods if my memory is correct. You guys let me know if I'm wet behind the ears, but I definitely read this many years ago. Could this be the mystery amount?

[robz]

Another long shot but what about VOE? Was that officially listed or because of the controversy of Racing image simply stated as Special Equipment?