[mtnbktrek]

So much bad info on this site anymore and petty arguing it’s really crappy this forum used to have good info.

Sirrotica You give dangerous info if I were an admin you would be banned along with latech and chief of the 60’s for the info you are putting out there.

Going to try and post a pic of the shock that just came apart under the force of the spring alone. Do not rely on a shock to hold back a springs power and do not rely on a floor jack either. Yeah it can be done and they don’t always come apart and floor jacks don’t often fail but it does happen.

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by mtnbktrek

So much bad info on this site anymore and petty arguing it’s really crappy this forum used to have good info.

Sirrotica You give dangerous info if I were an admin you would be banned along with latech and chief of the 60’s for the info you are putting out there.

Going to try and post a pic of the shock that just came apart under the force of the spring alone. Do not rely on a shock to hold back a springs power and do not rely on a floor jack either. Yeah it can be done and they don’t always come apart and floor jacks don’t often fail but it does happen.

This same argument can be made about spring compressors. The claws don't always slip and send a compressed spring across the garage, but sometimes, they do.

The important thing to note is that working with a compressed spring always has the potential to cause damage or injury, no matter how you're removing it. Make sure that whatever tools you are using are in good condition and functioning properly before attempting to remove a spring under pressure.

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by mtnbktrek

floor jacks don’t often fail but it does happen.

Most people that know what they are doing also know to use quality tools and equipment. Not Chiwanese Harbor Fright junk. The info was solid as well as done time and time again. If there is questionable ability, perhaps a reputable repair facility should do the work.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by mtnbktrek

So much bad info on this site anymore and petty arguing it’s really crappy this forum used to have good info.

Sirrotica You give dangerous info if I were an admin you would be banned along with latech and chief of the 60’s for the info you are putting out there.

Going to try and post a pic of the shock that just came apart under the force of the spring alone. Do not rely on a shock to hold back a springs power and do not rely on a floor jack either. Yeah it can be done and they don’t always come apart and floor jacks don’t often fail but it does happen.

Mtnbktrek, first of all you're not an administrator here. Secondly I didn't give anyone any bad advice.

Since you condemned me, and choose to demand my expulsion from this forum, let me quiz you first here.

(1) Were you working on the front end of the car when this happened?

(2) Did this work entail removing the front shocks?

(3)Since I see a impact socket and extension in the picture is that how you removed the upper shock nut?

(4) If you weren't in the process of removing the front shocks have you or anyone else removed the shocks and re-installed them?

(5) was there any oil in the shock? I see no evidence of oil on the shock body Answer those questions, and I'll get back to you.

I've been doing this for over 50 years as my vocation at dealerships, working for private shops, and two garages that I was the owner of. I have 3 years formal training at a vocational training school in auto mechanics and graduated with a B+ average. I've held a state inspection license in PA since I was 18 years old and held it for close to 30 years before I went from auto and truck repairs, to aerial lift repairs. I've built and maintained 5 Pontiac oval track race cars that I campaigned successfully over a 12 year period. In all that time I have changed easily 100 front coil springs and never had even a scare of a spring getting away from me using the methods described.

Your qualifications are?

[Squidward]

Originally Posted by LATECH

So in reality , Put the car on stands, Then lift the LCA with the jack. Seperate the upper and lower ball joints, remove the spindle. Then you can just remove the shock,Lower the jack and pry the spring out with the arm extended all the way down. TIP loosen the lower control arm bushing through bolts before lowering the jack so it moves easily and doesnt bind .

I am doing an A-body front suspension rebuild now. I do this ^^.

OP: Car goes on jackstands at reinforced part of frame rails just aft of front wheels. Jack goes under LCA and is jacked up to just meet the LCA. Remove brake hardware and toss/hang out of the way as desired. Loosen but don't remove the castle nuts at upper and lower ball joints. Unthread each nut maybe only an eighth of an inch, to where the nut is flush with the end of the ball joint thread.

You may need to move your steering to the left or to the right to access the spindle/ball joint interfaces. Get a torch and heat the spindle where the joint goes into the spindle seat. It doesn't need to be really hot, but maybe 15-30 seconds. Don't cook your ball joint boot and grease.

Take a mini sledge and smack the spindle/ball joint interface. The remaining spring tension should provide a pulling force to help separate the ball joint from the spindle. The castle nut will keep things safely retained, as will the jack. Do the same thing for the other ball joint, upper or lower.

Once both ball joints have separated slightly from the spindle (you would hear a definitive "pop" and see the spindle knuckle against the castle nut), put some pressure on the jack under the LCA to slightly compress the spring/LCA an inch or two to remove the tension on the castle nuts on the upper and lower ball joints. Remove castle nuts, and remove spindle/wheel hub. If going for just a spindle replace, install spindle in reverse order. Just make sure your cotter pin holes in the ball joints are pointing in an accessible direction before torquing your castle nuts.

If I was doing just the spindle, I would leave the shock installed. I wouldn't trust a shock to hold the spring unsupported by the jack, tho. I always just take a small nylon ratchet strap and tie the spring to something just in case something weird happens. Even if you were to remove the shock and drop out the jack from under the LCA, the spring pretty much stays there until you pry or kick it out. But don't be stupid and stick your fingers in the coil, or put your face or nutz in front of an unrestrained spring. I take these very seriously, because I work with my hands/face/nutz as a rockstar/surgeon/supermodel/porn star.

I've never used a spring compressor for removal/install of springs on a 1st gen FB, and I didn't use one for removing the springs on my 72 Lemans or 2001 GMC 1500 - I just restrained the spring with the nylon strap to maintain "custody" of the spring. But installing the new springs on my Lemans will require a compressor. It has been too much prying/kicking and poor spring alignment without it.

If the OP is a first timer, then by all means use whatever safety implements at your disposal to help you feel better until you fully understand and account for all the forces and dynamics at play. Check out several youtube videos, too. I guarantee you 28 different gearheads have made 33 videos showing you 12 slightly different ways to do the same thing. Ahh... the beauty of the information age...

[OG68]

If you're a first timer use a chain. Cheap insurance against everything mentioned above.

[Sirrotica]

With the sway bar still connected you have a built in backup already in place so the shock and the sway bar still connected, with the spring extended is almost at the end of it's travel. (remember the OP was changing a spindle, not replacing a spring). Even if the shock came apart under tension (which I'm sure it didn't after looking at that picture), you have a floor jack under the lower A arm, and the sway bar link as a backup. How many fail safes does one need?

3 inches of spring compression at 300 lbs per inch is only 900 lbs of tension. The stored energy is almost gone with the wheels hanging. Cars are lifted on automotive lifts everyday and I have yet to see an extended shock/strut break and break a sway bar pin too as a car is lifted off the ground.

I'm quite sure I know what happened to disengage the shock rod from the piston inside of the shock, but still no answer to my questions.

[Ozzmann]

I just removed my springs and arms over the week-end, third time I have done this and probably the most dangerous thing I have done with my car, that spring can kill you! But in saying that all I've ever used is a big floor jack to hold the arm and lower it carefully. Yesterday doing the second spring I felt a little uneasy on the placement of my floor jack as it come down, so I got my engine hoist which is folded up and placed it between me and the car, can never be too safe.
I'm going to coil overs so I'm done with that spring once and for all!

[Sirrotica]

I have much less stress working with a coil spring on the front of a GM RWD car, than I do winding up the tension on the springs on overhead doors. I guess it's all in what you're familiar with. Done hundreds of coil springs on cars, and only tightened up overhead door springs maybe 5 times.

Your face and hands are in close proximity on overhead doors, you can be further away from your work on coil springs. I always use safe practices on both, and have never been in any compromised situations with either.

I guess if you understand the mechanics and how things function, you understand what not to do to survive the operation and have everything go smoothly throughout the job being performed.

[66sprint6]

We've changed the springs on our Tempest a few times. No big deal. Take your time. Work safely. We borrowed the spring compressor from an auto parts store.

[Skip Fix]

I have found the arms on most of them do not fit the curve of the spring it took me about 3 to find one. Even the one OReilly rents out did not. I also fits through the shock hole which makes it easier also.

[Sirrotica]

Seems everyone missed the first post that the springs are staying in the chassis and the OP is changing spindles. Which in no way requires any removal of the springs. The lower control arm, shock, and sway bar pins don't need to be disturbed to change spindles, just split the spindles at the upper, and lower ball joints, split the tie rod end.

Hence I'm not sure with a shock inside of the spring, the sway bar link connected, and with a floor jack under the lower A frame, why with 3 things holding the lower control arm in place does someone need a spring compressor too? The shock is still connected in the middle of the spring. How is it the guy with the criticism of my directions, insisting the moderators ban me forever, managed to make the shock come apart internally.

And to further prove that the sequence I originally outlined is correct, these are directions for professional installers that Speed Tech has for installing their spindles in a 64-72 GM A Body. No mention of chains, spring compressors, removing shock absorbers, removing sway bar pins, etc, etc.

1. Put your vehicle on a lift or jack stands. Remove wheels. Place a floor jack under the lower control and jack up until there is tension on the suspension. Unbolt the flex brake line at the frame and remove the brakes. You will need to do this to access the bolts for the steering arm for '67-69 Camaro and '68-74 Nova applications. All others require use of the custom ATS steering arms purchased with your spindles.

2. Back off the castle nut on the tie rod end so that there are only a few threads engaged. Using a pickle fork break loose the steering arm from the tie rod end. Then remove the nut and tie rod end from the steering arm. Remove the steering arm from the factory spindle and set aside. Loosen the castle nuts and using the pickle fork repeat the process for breaking loose the upper and lower ball joints. Note: There will be tension on the coil spring and the vehicle may jump slightly. Take caution when doing this procedure and be sure the lower control arm is securely supported by the floor jack.

3. Once both upper and lower ball joints are broken loose from the spindle, carefully remove the upper ball joint castle nut and spindle from the control arm. Repeat the process for the lower ball joint and remove the factory spindle from the vehicle.

4. Install the AFX spindle onto the lower ball joint. Note that the brake caliper mount is towards the rear of the vehicle. Thread on the lower ball joint castle nut. Repeat process for the upper ball joint and castle nut.

5. Torque the lower ball joint to 41 ft/lbs. and replace the cotter pin. Torque the upper ball joint to 31 ft/lbs. and replace the cotter pin.

6. Using the new bolts supplied in the kit, either bolt the factory steering arm or ATS steering arm onto the AFX spindle. Note there are two different length bolts, the longer of the two is used in the rear. Torque to 45 ft/lbs.

7. Reinstall the tie rod end into the steering arm and torque to 35 ft/lbs. Install new cotter pin. Release tension from floor jack and move it out of the way. Repeat process for the other side.

8. Have a suspension alignment performed by a competent shop familiar with performance type alignments. Page 9 lists recommended alignment specs. We do not recommend using pre-programmed alignment shop factory specs.

There you go Mtnbktrek, for all intensive purposes, the same thing I outlined in my first post, professional directions. If you're an amateur they may not apply to you. Just because someone owns tools, doesn't mean they can use them effectively.

I'm sure after your outburst there won't be any reconsideration of the slander you rendered. I'm still waiting for your answers about the procedure I questioned you about, which you've not replied to.

[Skip Fix]

I missed that. Yes I have popped the spindles out with springs still in. Support lower A Arm with floor jack. Can use this to also swap out upper control arms.

I bought one of the tools that fits between the ball joints(like a giant coupling nut and a bolt) that spread the ball joint studs to press it out. Loosen one nut to pop it , then the other. My 78 TA manual showed one and I liked it. Does not tear up the ball joint boots like a pickle fork.

[Slider]

Just letting everyone concerned that I lived through the install, no spring impaled in my head. I did end up replacing the ball joints so I used a small bottle jack to support under the LCA to give me room for ball joint press.

[Sirrotica]

There you go, just using your head and nothing bad happened. Glad you have it over and past and can go onto other projects. I'm sure no one needed all the drama that ensued over basically nothing.

[64speed]

Originally Posted by Slider

Just letting everyone concerned that I lived through the install, no spring impaled in my head. I did end up replacing the ball joints so I used a small bottle jack to support under the LCA to give me room for ball joint press.

If that was your first time pressing ball joints on in the car make sure they are fully seated and not crooked before you drive the car. I had never done it before and followed the instructions to the letter but when I got to the alignment shop they told me the passenger side was not pressed in properly. Thank god it was less than 2 miles away on a 30 mph road