[Gen2guy]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Gen2guy, can you post a pic of the cowl tag?
According to Rocky's book, the Hurst Hatch wasn't available for the Van Nuys cars. (at least in your time frame)

Your car is blue correct?

On your PHS, what does it say under the Dealer Order #?

This what is under the dealer # on the invoice.
DEN 108 or it could be DEN 10B

The factory color is Sterling Silver with Carmine cloth interior, but at sometime it had a complete color change to Mayan Red.

I'll post a cowl tag pic this afternoon. Thanks

[Held for Ransom]

Code 15L 15U is called Platinum in 1978.
You must still be stuck on 1977, as that was 13L 13U, Sterling Silver.

And, yes, 74B1 is Carmine in cloth.

[Gen2guy]

Originally Posted by Held for Ransom

Code 15L 15U is called Platinum in 1978.
You must still be stuck on 1977, as that was 13L 13U, Sterling Silver.

And, yes, 74B1 is Carmine in cloth.

lol yes you are correct I knew something didn't seem right when I was replying. Thanks Held

[johnta1]

I looked at a bunch of 78 (and 77/79) PHS pics.
That style of PHS didn't have any way to show where it came from or went to.


I would say that possibly your TA had the T-tops added after it left the plant.
There were a few places that installed them plus Hurst.

[Held for Ransom]

Originally Posted by Gen2guy

lol yes you are correct I knew something didn't seem right when I was replying. Thanks Held

No problem. It was called Sterling Silver for '75-7.

I wonder if someone is/was tracking the WEIGHT box, that they could figure out the trans.

[Gen2guy]

Originally Posted by johnta1

I looked at a bunch of 78 (and 77/79) PHS pics.
That style of PHS didn't have any way to show where it came from or went to.


I would say that possibly your TA had the T-tops added after it left the plant.
There were a few places that installed them plus Hurst.

Yes I remember a couple of companies I believe one was American Tops and maybe even Car Craft did. My tops have the Hurst logo made into the glass in the corner of the hatch. Thanks John

[TAKerry]

When did they start using Fisher tops?

[johnta1]

1978

They still had to do the Hurst if ordered early, later they went to the Fisher T-top.
(March maybe?)

[Skip Fix]

Like John said '78 first year for Fishers. But I do remember when at dealers looking there were some 78 Hurst Special edition cars on the lots. I missed the W72 by about a month April/May order.

[Gen2guy]

Originally Posted by johnta1

1978

They still had to do the Hurst if ordered early, later they went to the Fisher T-top.
(March maybe?)

March is correct John for Fisher and I would imagine by the end of April all the the cars that were already at the Hurst shop would have been delivered to the dealerships.

[Gen2guy]

Originally Posted by Skip Fix

Like John said '78 first year for Fishers. But I do remember when at dealers looking there were some 78 Hurst Special edition cars on the lots. I missed the W72 by about a month April/May order.

Yes 1/2 way through the model year the change was made.

[napster]

Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head

Little over 20 years ago, i parted a fairly late built '78 Y88 W72/auto that was fairly rusty. The 6X-4's off of that X7 engine were cast in April of '78. From that particular car, IF the X7 engine was discontinued, it had to be very late in the production run.

Hope Rocky chimes in. Need someone who has had access to all the '78 Sales Bulletins to
derive when the 78 W72 400 orders were no longer being taken, & when builds with either engine ceased.

Roger,

According to John Witke's W72 Tech article all orders for the W72 with an auto stopped on 3/20/78. A car distribution bulletin dated March 16th, 1978 outlined this change. It was clear all orders prior to 3/20/78 would be built with the automatic if ordered that way. It makes sense that April or May 1978 would be the time an order of the W72 with an auto would be built from March of 1978.

The bulletin was on page 37 on John's 52 page article.

Jim

[68ragtop]

As mentioned a late 1977 would have likely had the hurst hatches yet, with exception of the S/E's that came with the fishers as part of the package. I believe all of those cars had fisher tops even the first ones down the line. I recall reading that the demand for the new designed fisher tops was so high the GM started bringing the hurst tops back as a fill in for orders at some point in mid to early 78? Not sure on the dates, but I was surprised to read that happened. I used to assume every hurst 78 was early, but thats not nessisarily true. That said, unless the car has the S/E option the T-tops should have been on the invoice as there were not included with anything else in 1978. Are they hurst or fisher tops? (sorry if this was discussed already) I could see those being added years back. Heck I added a fisher roof to a 78 I had back in 1986. chopped it in the A & B pillars. That car is going gone to the scrap yard though.......

Also, wasn't the W72 manual about the same price as the L78 automatic? I could see where that might not show up on an invoice, but if its an auto car it would have the W72 charge for sure.

I have friend who had an early 78, WS6, W72 4 speed with hurst tops. I'll see if by chance he had the invoice or build sheet before selling the car.

[Gen2guy]

Originally Posted by Held for Ransom

I was sure you were correct with what you posted earlier, the remark on the CC was for other readers.

For the '78 TA, an auto. trans. would have 3.23:1 rear gears and the 4 speed would have 3.42:1. And the 4 speed trans. code for the TA would have been M21, not MM4.

This is where I got my info for the code MM4 I've had this book since 1986. Now remember there are factory codes and dealer sales codes. Sometimes they are the same and sometimes they aren't. Here is are some options from 77 & 78 I just took pics of the pages with the transmission codes.

[TAKerry]

Originally Posted by Gen2guy

This is where I got my info for the code MM4 I've had this book since 1986. Now remember there are factory codes and dealer sales codes. Sometimes they are the same and sometimes they aren't. Here is are some options from 77 & 78 I just took pics of the pages with the transmission codes.

I would love to have a copy of that page with the 77 info and the 79 info, any chance?

[Gen2guy]

Originally Posted by TAKerry

I would love to have a copy of that page with the 77 info and the 79 info, any chance?

It only goes up to 78 but I'll take pics of all the 1977 pages and text them to you I still have your phone number from when I was looking for exhaust manifolds.

[highway star]

My Van Nuys '78 WS6 W72 had Cars & Concepts T-tops installed in Memphis. There is a sticker on the driver's (aft) door stating the modification.
Any chance yours has a door sticker?

[TAKerry]

Gen 2, that sounds perfect. Thanks.
Highway star, how do you know the CnC tops were installed in Memphis? Reason I ask: I have them on my 77, I always assumed they were dealer installed or at least by a local shop. I talked to a guy at an olds show last summer who was an engineer for Hurst. He had some really good info and great knowledge about the CnC tops. There was a factory in the Detroit area that the cars were shipped to where they were installed then on to the dealers. Not sure if you know their history but the fellow that started Cars n Concepts owned Hurst. He started C n C after he sold off his interest in Hurst.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Gen2guy

Now remember there are factory codes and dealer sales codes. Sometimes they are the same and sometimes they aren't.

There are "merchandised" option codes and "non-merchandised" option codes.

The merchandised option code is the one the customer selects (ie, "I want a manual trans", or "I want an automatic trans"). The non-merchandised option code is the specific trans, in terms of capacity or gear ratios, that the engineering release charts choose on the customer's behalf, taking into consideration powertrain, GVW rating, etc.

It doesn't really matter when there is only one trans part number or type is offered, but when there are multiple choices then it becomes significant.

Let me use a pickup truck example, since there is more proliferation in that product line:

Let's say you want a "three on the tree":

You tell your dealer and he chooses the "merchandised" option "MM3" = manual trans 3 speed.

From that then the engineering charts choose non-merchandised RPO M62 or M64, depending on the first gear ratio required for your specific powertrain and GVW.

Another example: you say "I want the manual trans with a creeper gear".

Dealer selects the merchandised option "MM4", but there is only one part number available, the non-merchandised option M20 (SM465), so the two option codes can be used interchangeably.

Same thing happens with brake systems: the customer might choose manual or power (ie, J50 vs not) but then the engineering charts dictate which system the vehicle gets within that broader category (ie, JB3, JB5, JB6, etc, in terms of truck RPOs).


K

[highway star]

Originally Posted by TAKerry

Gen 2, that sounds perfect. Thanks.
Highway star, how do you know the CnC tops were installed in Memphis? Reason I ask: I have them on my 77, I always assumed they were dealer installed or at least by a local shop. I talked to a guy at an olds show last summer who was an engineer for Hurst. He had some really good info and great knowledge about the CnC tops. There was a factory in the Detroit area that the cars were shipped to where they were installed then on to the dealers. Not sure if you know their history but the fellow that started Cars n Concepts owned Hurst. He started C n C after he sold off his interest in Hurst.

My car came from Van Nuys to Memphis Foster Pontiac and they sent it to Don's Upholstery (in Memphis) to have the T-tops installed. I took the car by there in the late 80's and they said they did the install.