[Hillard]

Just saw a flyer for the POCI drag race at Kil-Kare for this years co-vention. It does not list a "no-box" or "Pro" class. It's either boxes and everything allowed or street (11.50 or slower). I'm a little shocked by this....unless I totally missed something.

[Vince GTO]

Wow?

http://www.poci.org/Docs/174.PDF

[Big Injun]

The Super Pro/Pro Combo bracket was designed by local racers and is a two into one bracket. One side of the ladder is Pro "no box" and the other side of the ladder is Super Pro. The finalists will be the winners of each ladder running off for the "combo" bracket win.

[Rob B]

The "Super Pro" (box) "Pro" (no box) is an all run, combo race. Both style of cars will be kept separated until the finals. The quick 8/16 race will allow anyone who wants to enter, run in a laddered, handicapped, .500 tree race rather they are foot braking or using electronics. Your qualifying time is your 1st round dial. After that, your dial is whatever you want it to be. Those who don't qualify will automatically go into the all run.
With events like these, the majority of the cars that participate are no box/Pro and/or Street cars. As an example, look at the classes at Norwalk for the Tri-Power Nats. Out of the 450-500 that participate on avg, well over 200-225 of those cars are in Pro/no box class. Another 200 or so are in the street class. Throw in 25 or so for the FWD cars, that leaves somewhere around 50 cars or less in Super Pro. Every year, that class get smaller and smaller and the other non box classes grow.
With a specific number of cars we feel would attend this POCI drag race and based on breakdowns from the previous race in 2009 and other info, we decided that the quick 8/16 race would essentially eat up most if not all of the box cars. It just allows these cars to race in a different format they may not be use to or get the opportunity to.
We have seen formats like this run numerous times with great success and in order to have a payout that entices people to bring their cars out to a specialty race and to simplify the days program, this is what we decided on as the hosting club putting the event on. All we are trying to do is put on a great race, a great show, but a simplified show. Offer a great payout and as much payout as we can for a reasonable entry. Entice people who may not otherwise participate to come on out and do so and have some fun with their Pontiacs!

Also I believe the track is open on Thursday nights for their arm drop/grudge racing and I think they are going to allow anyone who comes in for that event to park their cars or stay for the night if you have the facilities to do so. No tent camping though. Not sure if you want to stay Friday night to race on Saturday at their regular bracket program. Do know they have dirt track racing on Friday night. We can verify all this in the coming weeks. Feel free to email me at rbarhorst@fuse.net if you have any questions/concerns.

[Rob B]

Just think Vince, you could maybe even qualify for the quick 8/16 if you get your junk back together and straightened out!
I'll be trying if I get my junkaas done by then!

[Hillard]

Don't take me wrong...I'll be there. I've beaten box guys with my footbrake before. I've just personally never seen this format before and was kinda shocked everyone was getting thrown together. Are you a little afraid it might hurt attendance?

[Bruce Meyer]

Originally Posted by 1050goat

Just saw a flyer for the POCI drag race at Kil-Kare for this years co-vention. It does not list a "no-box" or "Pro" class. It's either boxes and everything allowed or street (11.50 or slower). I'm a little shocked by this....unless I totally missed something.

I think they have been doing that format for a while. Thats why I didnt bother racing it when it was in CA a few years back. Stupid rules IMHO. Totaly unfair to non box racers. The guys with the box should run their own class period or be told to disconect the things.

[Rob B]

Originally Posted by 1050goat

Don't take me wrong...I'll be there. I've beaten box guys with my footbrake before. I've just personally never seen this format before and was kinda shocked everyone was getting thrown together. Are you a little afraid it might hurt attendance?

No Don't think it would hurt one bit. I've seen this format many of times. Some big money races in southern KY are run in this style of format.
Last time in 2009, there was 12 box cars, all the rest were no-box and Street car plus it was a beautiful day with an excellent overall car count. So basically the quick 8/16 race will more than likely end up being the box race if you want to look at it that way, just running it under a ladder format for the first round. All the no box cars will run together and same with all box cars. Depending on car count and how many of the box cars make it to the quick race decides when and where the 2 brackets get merged.
We went to the first 3 years of PY's Pontiacs in the Park when that was started. Same issue there. There was around 75 cars total for that event pretty much all those years we went. The first year I was the 14th car running box class and the counts was similar the next 2 years we went. The Bowling Green POCI Race in 2011 was pretty much the same way if not even fewer cars in box. Last years Pontiacs in the Grove race that was tied into PY open House again had around 100 cars total for the brackets and the counts in each were similar to everything else. These are some examples of events we attended and saw first hand. I'm sure you'd find similar results at other Pontiac only events in other parts of the nation.
This race is obviously in conjunction with the Co-vention. We're trying to make this race event not only appealing to your weekly racer but also to the casual racer and everyone at the convention who we want to come out and watch some great racing and maybe even throw there hand in on competing.

I've seen more no box cars win these style of races than box cars over the years!

[straycat]

I love the feel of accomplishment after beating a box car. Love to see a certain red 66 do it.

[PaulatFast]

Originally Posted by Bruce Meyer

I think they have been doing that format for a while. Thats why I didnt bother racing it when it was in CA a few years back. Stupid rules IMHO. Totaly unfair to non box racers. The guys with the box should run their own class period or be told to disconect the things.

You couldn't be more wrong. WE have never done this before. WE are open to input.

Here is our thought process. Quick 8/16 programs are crowd favorites. We Need to make sure they have something to draw them in. In 09, there were 800 paying spectators... Do the math, that goes a long way toward track rental, freeing up the racer entry for better than a 100% payout. In 09 we had less than 20 Super Pro cars entered. By having an open Quick 16 setup, the footbrake guys have the option of running in the Q16 if they qualify. Would you rather take your chances in a Q16 bracket race for a 1000.00 or stay in the 40-60 car Pro bracket for the 1,000.00 Prize? There will only be a half dozen or so Super Pro cars not in the Q16, I do not think that small of a car count justify thier own bracket. Our original thought, and what Rob addressd above, was to run two sides of an all run bracket, super pro to a final racer and pro to a single finals participant, then run both for a large payout of 1,000.00. That would garantee a non-electronic car in the final for all the money. Upon further review, that isn't fair either. The electronics racer may only need to run 2 or 3 rounds to reach the finals. What we decided was to put all the racers into an all run bracket and let them duke it out. The number of electronics racers will only be in the single digits. Since these guys will have run time trials with thier electronics, it seemed fair to allow them to run like that in the eliminations... Maybe we should make them run without electronics to even the playing field? You guys feedback is what will drive this decision.

Remeber, this race is NON-Profit, for the racers, by the racers. Comments like "thier rules are dumb" suck. and are way off base. There is no "Their", it is "our" race, with a garanteed 100%+ racer payout. Go find another race that can state that...

OPEN TO SUGGESTIONS! Thanks!

[Bruce Meyer]

Originally Posted by PaulatFast

You couldn't be more wrong. WE have never done this before. WE are open to input.

Here is our thought process. Quick 8/16 programs are crowd favorites. We Need to make sure they have something to draw them in. In 09, there were 800 paying spectators... Do the math, that goes a long way toward track rental, freeing up the racer entry for better than a 100% payout. In 09 we had less than 20 Super Pro cars entered. By having an open Quick 16 setup, the footbrake guys have the option of running in the Q16 if they qualify. Would you rather take your chances in a Q16 bracket race for a 1000.00 or stay in the 40-60 car Pro bracket for the 1,000.00 Prize? There will only be a half dozen or so Super Pro cars not in the Q16, I do not think that small of a car count justify thier own bracket. Our original thought, and what Rob addressd above, was to run two sides of an all run bracket, super pro to a final racer and pro to a single finals participant, then run both for a large payout of 1,000.00. That would garantee a non-electronic car in the final for all the money. Upon further review, that isn't fair either. The electronics racer may only need to run 2 or 3 rounds to reach the finals. What we decided was to put all the racers into an all run bracket and let them duke it out. The number of electronics racers will only be in the single digits. Since these guys will have run time trials with thier electronics, it seemed fair to allow them to run like that in the eliminations... Maybe we should make them run without electronics to even the playing field? You guys feedback is what will drive this decision.

Remeber, this race is NON-Profit, for the racers, by the racers. Comments like "thier rules are dumb" suck. and are way off base. There is no "Their", it is "our" race, with a garanteed 100%+ racer payout. Go find another race that can state that...

OPEN TO SUGGESTIONS! Thanks!

2006 POCI in CA had the box and non box cars running in the same class. That is a fact.
Sorry if my opinions ruffled your feathers but I would never waste my time and money on a unlevel playing field.

[PaulatFast]

Originally Posted by Bruce Meyer

2006 POCI in CA had the box and non box cars running in the same class. That is a fact.
Sorry if my opinions ruffled your feathers but I would never waste my time and money on a unlevel playing field.

My feathers aren't ruffled, and after reading my post, I realize it seems like it was all directed at you... not my intent. After my first sentence, directed at you, I was speaking in generalities.

The point is, Doug, Rob and I are the ones responsible for this race. We had nothing to do with POCI in 06, let alone the Drag Race. Dave Anderson is overseeing our efforts, but has not dictated class rules to us. We are all about making this race fair for everyone. Input from racers is welcome. Thanks to you and all who constructively provide input.

[Big Injun]

Originally Posted by Bruce Meyer

2006 POCI in CA had the box and non box cars running in the same class. That is a fact.
Sorry if my opinions ruffled your feathers but I would never waste my time and money on a unlevel playing field.

As the promoter and operator of the 2006 race in California I can emphatically so NO we did not have box and no box cars in the same class! What did happen was that some slick bracket racer from AZ, with a '65 Tempest and a big block, came over with his Pontiac friends and lied to tech about his car. A lot more surrounded this racer, but it makes little difference now. Some bracket racers are just shameful!

What continues to be an issue for "club" racing is "mindset". Too many racers have the mindset that this is some big paying national event. It is not. POCI/GTOAA Drag racing is a hobby sport.

The GR-RRReat majority who participate have fun and enjoy themselves. There is really nothing we can do to satisfy the others.

Kil-Kare is under new ownership and, as I understand, they have made some great improvements to the facilities. In particular, the starting line area. In 2009 we have more than 120 cars in competition. We are hopeful of a similar turnout and a fun day for all.

[Vince GTO]

Originally Posted by Rob B

Just think Vince, you could maybe even qualify for the quick 8/16 if you get your junk back together and straightened out!
I'll be trying if I get my junkaas done by then!

Hey Rob,
My Junk is in progress hopefully will be back on the track in June.

I would certainly prefer no electronics especially if that is the majority of the entries. Racing a transbrake car against a footbrake car is tough enough but having to run a box car even harder. Either way it is to close for me to miss.

Vince

[Rob B]

Originally Posted by Vince GTO

Hey Rob,
My Junk is in progress hopefully will be back on the track in June.

I would certainly prefer no electronics especially if that is the majority of the entries. Racing a transbrake car against a footbrake car is tough enough but having to run a box car even harder. Either way it is to close for me to miss.

Vince

Come on Vince, you know as well as I do that no matter what bracket you run, you still have to react to a light. rather if its the top one or the last one.
You have never ran in an all-run race or on a weekend where the car count is so low that the track combine the brackets? I think some of the footbrake racers can be the scariest guys to race around here, rather if your using a brake or a box!!!

[Bruce Meyer]

Originally Posted by Big Injun

As the promoter and operator of the 2006 race in California I can emphatically so NO we did not have box and no box cars in the same class! What did happen was that some slick bracket racer from AZ, with a '65 Tempest and a big block, came over with his Pontiac friends and lied to tech about his car. A lot more surrounded this racer, but it makes little difference now. Some bracket racers are just shameful!

What continues to be an issue for "club" racing is "mindset". Too many racers have the mindset that this is some big paying national event. It is not. POCI/GTOAA Drag racing is a hobby sport.

The GR-RRReat majority who participate have fun and enjoy themselves. There is really nothing we can do to satisfy the others.

Kil-Kare is under new ownership and, as I understand, they have made some great improvements to the facilities. In particular, the starting line area. In 2009 we have more than 120 cars in competition. We are hopeful of a similar turnout and a fun day for all.

We had the same arguement in 2006. Look here for yourself. The Box and no box cars ran in the same class. http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=473308

As far as some guy from AZ winning your race. Dont look at me. I wasnt there.

[Big Injun]

OK Bruce, my bad, you win! Did you sell the '67 with the little 428? Hopefully Steve gets things straighten out and we'll all be racing soon in AZ.

I believe the racer was a friend of Tim's.

[Bruce Meyer]

The 67 is sold. Keeping my fingers crossed for P Heaven this year.

[Vince GTO]

Originally Posted by Rob B

Come on Vince, you know as well as I do that no matter what bracket you run, you still have to react to a light. rather if its the top one or the last one.
You have never ran in an all-run race or on a weekend where the car count is so low that the track combine the brackets? I think some of the footbrake racers can be the scariest guys to race around here, rather if your using a brake or a box!!!

Rob,
I guess I have just been lucky and not had the track combine the brackets yet. I have only been doing this for about eight years and have not raced a box car yet but with my luck I will in July hopefully in the finals LOL. I do agree there are very good footbrake guys out there I attend a few No-Box races during the year and I am always impressed with the lights these guys cut.

Vince

[Bill Meyer]

Here is my concern: When I travel a distance to enter a race, I usually enter both the box & non box classes. I do not run a box, but race enough to be competitive in the box class. Can I enter both sides? If I race myself, I know who will win! - Bill -