[PONTIAC DUDE]

Oh and it wasn't a NEW ;) pump or product found to have flaws.

[Tech @ BG]

We will a lot of times extend warranty consideration depending upon the circumstances, not the person . Here is a good story regarding that which has occured over the last couple of weeks.

Barry himself has been going to various consumer trade shows and events and working the booth to get unvarnished opinions of what customers are actually saying in the field.These have all been national type car shows with hundreds of participants and even more spectators. Much to his pleasure with all of the participants at each show there have only been 2 -3 come up at each and voice their problems with him to which he turns them over to me to look into their issue.

At the last show he did have a guy come by who was using the Pontiac Six Shooter who was happy with it but shortly after that was another guy who had one and started raising @%#^ for close to 20 minutes about how poor it ran and now they could never adjust the center carburetor and he had taken it back off the car,put it on the shelf and put his original stuff back on. He went on to say how he would really like to put it back on the car as it did run real good for a little when they first installed it before doing this. He did not realize he was talking to Barry himself until after he left the booth but Barry told him to send it back and we would gladly take a look at it and fix it so he could take it off the shelf and use it again.

Barry hadn't even gotten back from the show before the guy called me and told me of this whole story and I informed him of the same to send it back for us to look at.

His carburetors arrived this week and our guys in the R&D department here opened them up to take a look. Much to our suprise we found a large piece of teflon tape covering the end of the needle and seat keeping it hung open as well as another large piece that had made its way through. This was apparently done when they installed in on the car as we do not use any teflon here.

For a few buck in parts and shipping back we decided to go ahead and take care of this guy and his 2400.00 investment and will be sending his carburetors back to him having fixed them for free and he should be good to go. We didn't have to but once again we did extend warranty to a customer and he can now reinstall his system and go enjoy it.

[Tech @ BG]

Originally Posted by i82much

I don't know about everyone else but ... unless I know one of the parties directly involved in one of these threads I usually reserve judgment on who is really at fault. I do think businesses in this industry probably put up with more crap than most other businesses. You can really drag a company's name through the mud on a message board.

You would be correct but I am hearing rumblings that there may be changes coming down the road. Right now there is not much accountability for what is posted on internet forums unless you are just downright slanderous but there are several lawsuits going worldwide which could change that. I don't remember the exact details [was not an automotive related] but a large company/corporation was sueing a consumer who had made numerous postings which had affected their business. I had heard this story on the tv news and do not know the outcomes but the newscaster went on to imply that this could very well make those think twice that post false , wrong or even information with half truths in it . They also went on to say this could set a precedent that regardless of the situation if the company could prove the postings caused losses that they may still have the recourse to bring suit and seek damages. It will be interested in seeing how all of this plays out over the next couple of years .

[screamingchief]

Originally Posted by Tech @ BG

You would be correct but I am hearing rumblings that there may be changes coming down the road. Right now there is not much accountability for what is posted on internet forums unless you are just downright slanderous but there are several lawsuits going worldwide which could change that. I don't remember the exact details [was not an automotive related] but a large company/corporation was sueing a consumer who had made numerous postings which had affected their business. I had heard this story on the tv news and do not know the outcomes but the newscaster went on to imply that this could very well make those think twice that post false , wrong or even information with half truths in it . They also went on to say this could set a precedent that regardless of the situation if the company could prove the postings caused losses that they may still have the recourse to bring suit and seek damages. It will be interested in seeing how all of this plays out over the next couple of years .

Yeah,and said companies can also loose their ass when the accusations are found to be true,and the defendant counter-sues the plaintiff for harrasment and such.

It's a double edge sword amigo.

The second you guys go after your customers,you would be taking your livelyhood into your own hands,and not in a good way either.

That is a very touchy subject around here,as one of our members is facing exactly what your talking about,it is his case that you are likely refering to hearing about,it was a former sponsor of this forum that is suing him,that situation has polarized lots of folks opinions on who's side they're on.

IMO,you guys would do well to listen to the customers once and a while,instead of acting like you already have all the answers (or the only answers that matter).

:2cents:

[screamingchief]

Oh,BTW,remember that were you go on the offensive legally speaking,if there are enough legitimate complaints about your product out there,expect said customers to get together on this deal via this great tool called the world wide web,and understand that you guys could inturn be facing a class action lawsuit over this sorta thing,so try running that by ya'lls legal department before you threaten to lawyer up over this deal.

You've already admitted on these forums that there were QC issues,you've already admitted you changed seal designs on those pumps,could not those sort of actions be construed as tacit admissions of previous problems???

You guys would'nt stand a chance in a court case over this.

JMO/FWIW.

Have a nice day sir.

[Tech @ BG]

Originally Posted by screamingchief

Yeah,and said companies can also loose their ass when the accusations are found to be true,and the defendant counter-sues the plaintiff for harrasment and such.

It's a double edge sword amigo.

The second you guys go after your customers,you would be taking your livelyhood into your own hands,and not in a good way either.

That is a very touchy subject around here,as one of our members is facing exactly what your talking about,it is his case that you are likely refering to hearing about,it was a former sponsor of this forum that is suing him,that situation has polarized lots of folks opinions on who's side they're on.

IMO,you guys would do well to listen to the customers once and a while,instead of acting like you already have all the answers (or the only answers that matter).

:2cents:

And that would be the very reason why I did not mention the one here. Yes I heard about that one but the one I was referring to was not automotive related and not in the U.S. and the newscaster wnet on to say there were others here in this country.

I cannot see us doing this personally unless it was just something completely off the wall and the only time I know of this occuring in the past was when a guy posted that Barry was not using his own pumps and stuff on his race car and he had seen it for himself. That was a completely slanderous statement and needed to be addressed in the manner it was.

The point I was trying to make was that if thses precendents start occuring I think guys will start to think about what they actually post and not be as derogatory when doing so. I have no problem with a guy posting about a bad service or problems with a part as that is what we are here for to try and help.

[Tech @ BG]

Originally Posted by screamingchief

Oh,BTW,remember that were you go on the offensive legally speaking,if there are enough legitimate complaints about your product out there,expect said customers to get together on this deal via this great tool called the world wide web,and understand that you guys could inturn be facing a class action lawsuit over this sorta thing,so try running that by ya'lls legal department before you threaten to lawyer up over this deal.

You've already admitted on these forums that there were QC issues,you've already admitted you changed seal designs on those pumps,could not those sort of actions be construed as tacit admissions of previous problems???

You guys would'nt stand a chance in a court case over this.

JMO/FWIW.

Have a nice day sir.

You are trying to read too much into my statement and making way to much of an assumption. In regards to the seal it was made to improve the product as manufacturers improve their products all the time. The old seal had been in use for 20+ years and is still in use by the other manufacturers. Would you rather we not try to improve any of our products? Give us some credit as we are at least looking to do so.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

screamingchief. I think you read to much into his post. I agree with the statement that it seems John Q. Public can slam anyone and people seem to back them up not knowing all the facts because corporations now-a-days are looked at in the same light as the government. But let a company say something to back up there claim and they should not get involved or it will affect thier business. That's a bunch of crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If your right no matter who, you should have a right to express your facts. Then judge it from there. I have read pages upon pages on YB and this just goes to back up my point.

What is really a shame is that a person can say anything he wants on the internet and that he ran a BG pump and had nothing but issues.

BUT how is anyone outside his personal circle really gonna know if it's fact or fiction. I see it all the time and keep my mouth shut.


Why slam a manufacture if they have a valid point and just post the facts from their end?

So free speech with facts isn't allowed for all?

[Region Warrior]

Originally Posted by Ron

Customer is not always right.

If i EVER find the person who coined the phrase..."the customer is aways right" :mad:

We have 80 plus whsl accounts.
Deal with 20-30 on a daily basis.
Where up to me, i'd let 3-4 go.
2 have the worst A-hole owners AND service writers i dealt with in 20 yrs, yet the boss kisses thier ass.
Them and the other 2 only buy when its cheaper, and return at least a 1/3rd of it.
Mostly special orders.
And IT's aways our mistake :rolleyes:

[Rob B]

Originally Posted by Region Warrior

If i EVER find the person who coined the phrase..."the customer is aways right" :mad:

We have 80 plus whsl accounts.
Deal with 20-30 on a daily basis.
Where up to me, i'd let 3-4 go.
2 have the worst A-hole owners AND service writers i dealt with in 20 yrs, yet the boss kisses thier ass.
Them and the other 2 only buy when its cheaper, and return at least a 1/3rd of it.
Mostly special orders.
And IT's aways our mistake :rolleyes:

You ought to be in the printing business... Brokers make Car salesmen look like Priest.

[ho428]

Original posters: :rant: :wife: :boxing: :sorry: :cry: :lalala: :argue: :censored:

Us: :ranger: :huh: :popcorn: :smash:

Now:

[Rugratman]

Back to the original story line. :focus:

Maybe BG should offer a " Rebuild service ". Instead of a " resealing service "
They are rebuilt, no matter what....Flat rate.
Then, you get what you pay for, and there are no surprises. I would think that if someone is thinking $25.00 or whatever cost, then they get a higher quote, it will rub them the wrong way.
Just a suggestion.

[screamingchief]

Originally Posted by PONTIAC DUDE

Why slam a manufacture if they have a valid point and just post the facts from their end?

If indeed you have read all these threads Dude,you'd damn well know that I've never once "slammed" them for posting their side of this deal,all I've done is advise them to tone down the langauge they were using when doing so,I did so to try and keep them from making themselves look like huge jacka$$e$ when they blurt out some pointless dribble that did nothing to further the point at hand.

They did'nt much listen to that advice,and they went ahead and made the whole thing even worse with the "rant" from Mr. Grant over @ YB.

Further I suggested that they take a good look at the problem from a fresh point of view,from a POV that is other than their own for once,you know,try looking at the issue from another fellas perspective and such.

But again,I doubt that advice is getting thru.

I never once said they dont have a right to voice their side,I just advised them to pause a moment,and consider how it is gonna sound to the guy reading their posts on the other side of the monitor,ask me calling them "wannabe racers" and such,well that does'nt really help their case much at all,it only hurts it.

That's a lot like Phill Gramm calling the US a nation of whiners.

That sorta "let them eat cake" attitude is bound to alienate some folks out there.

I also have'nt slammed any BG products in any of these threads neither,I simply dont use enough of them to have the sorta issues being discussed,I've seen plenty of others who were not so fortunate though,but I would agree a fair share of that is on the owners of those vehicles at times as well.

Seen plenty use their stuff and have zero problems too.

I even tried to help Bill on this,,,but he said he "missed" that post,,,oh well what more can a fella do...

The only BG product I've bought in the past that I did'nt care to use was an old blister packed secondary side notched float for a holley,it looked like they notched it,and then did'nt bother to reseal the nitrophyl coating,which IMHO is a big no-no as the float will soak up fuel and end up sinking,but were I inclined to use that float,it is easy enough for me to fix that on my own.

Further,in the one thread,I even stated plainly I was still considering using some other products of theirs guys,so dont shoot me just yet fellas,cuz I aint the enemy.

I'm just telling the folks @ BG to tone down the level of rhetoric they're spewing,before something is said that they'll really regret.

They been doing pretty well at points,,,and then bam,,,out will come some off the wall comment that sounds like a spoiled 5 year old kid said it or something....

:-ohwell:

[ho428]

Originally Posted by screamingchief

They been doing pretty well at points,,,and then bam,,,out will come some off the wall comment that sounds like a spoiled 5 year old kid said it or something....

:-ohwell:

Agreed, from a professional level, once you've made your point, carefully worded as it should be, you're done. Move on, don't get pulled back into it.
The more Tech argues the worse BG looks. He made a good case, leave it at that.

I get the impression neither of these gents are used to loosing arguments so they don't know when to quit.

[screamingchief]

Originally Posted by Rugratman

Maybe BG should offer a " Rebuild service ". Instead of a " resealing service "
They are rebuilt, no matter what....Flat rate.
Then, you get what you pay for, and there are no surprises. I would think that if someone is thinking $25.00 or whatever cost, then they get a higher quote, it will rub them the wrong way.
Just a suggestion.

Maybe,just maybe when they mention prices,they should mention the prices for ALL the given service possibillities,up to,and including the price of full pump replacement,instead of just quoting the single lowest priced possibillity,some would say that practice is slightly misleading.

If I were them,I would have a seperate section on the website with all this information plainly stated for all customers to reference,then when on the web the Tech @ BG guy can just hyperlink any customers with those questions to that web page,then there would be no possible way for the customer to confuse where he may or may not stand on this,but that would be too simple a solution now would'nt it???

:doh:

Like I said over @ YB.com,they need a few "common sense" type folks around that joint.

Someone with fresh ways of looking at old problems.

:cool:

[Tech @ BG]

Originally Posted by ho428

Agreed, from a professional level, once you've made your point, carefully worded as it should be, you're done. Move on, don't get pulled back into it.
The more Tech argues the worse BG looks. He made a good case, leave it at that.

I get the impression neither of these gents are used to loosing arguments so they don't know when to quit.

Just didn't want them to think I was ignoring them but maybe you are right and it's time to leave it at that as suggested.

[Tech @ BG]

Originally Posted by Rugratman

Back to the original story line. :focus:

Maybe BG should offer a " Rebuild service ". Instead of a " resealing service "
They are rebuilt, no matter what....Flat rate.
Then, you get what you pay for, and there are no surprises. I would think that if someone is thinking $25.00 or whatever cost, then they get a higher quote, it will rub them the wrong way.
Just a suggestion.

We offer that if a guy is in a big hurry and doesn't mind getting an "exchange" pump back but it runs the same as a rebuild and a motor which is 179.00 . I would say though that 90% of the guys calling for pumps on the phone insist it only needs a seal even when we do tell them it may need more and that we cannot tell until it gets here.We then will tell them it could run up to 179.00 as long as the body and bypass are ok [those 2 generally do not go bad] . A rebuild runs 125.00 but not all the pumps need a full rebuild and we only put what the pump needs to get it back to spec. With this said it could come in and say need a reseal , rotor and veins. This repairs only runs 65.00 plus the shipping so it really varies.

[JLHarper]

Can I have a Barry Grant T SHIRT for being a loyal reader of this thread? :)

[RAJ7395]

For the benefit of everyone out there running this pump setup, what did BG determine was the root cause of the pump damage?

Debris ingestion (ie, Filter not fine enough, threads pulled out and got chewed up)?
Pitting? (AKA, Cavitation damage)
Gauling?
Bearings?
Running dry?
Discharge pressure setting to high?
Inlet pressure to low?
Fuel?
Heat?
Structural??
Design?

PS-If I was BG, I would be pro-actively compiling historical data on all my component
failures, use the data to highlight design "opportunities", and implement changes that truely effect reliability.

To get the data, I'd setup a page on the BG website for customers to document and report issues (capture part numbers, issues, symptoms, application, etc.). This would help take the he said/she said stuff out of the picture and focus on the facts.

[PLAY400]

Originally Posted by Rugratman

Back to the original story line. :focus:

Maybe BG should offer a " Rebuild service ". Instead of a " resealing service "
They are rebuilt, no matter what....Flat rate.
Then, you get what you pay for, and there are no surprises. I would think that if someone is thinking $25.00 or whatever cost, then they get a higher quote, it will rub them the wrong way.
Just a suggestion.

That would work great. Sent my BHJ balancer in for a recal/build and it was a flat rate of $75.00. Same as when I sent circuit boards out for repair at work, fixed cost. Guess they save a bit and lose a bit but in the end it all averages out.

And it seem like that is the standard policy in various other industries. Fixed rate rebuild/replacement or unrepairable.

Something for all to consider