[punisher#1]

i have a customer with a mr-1 block and i can back up drunk-n injun on the hardness and the cyl wall claims. after we had another issue with some machining that was done at kre and the vendor refused to acklowledge the problem we started checking for other potential defects. we also found that the hardness was way below industry standard @145-150 brinnel. the cyl. wall thickness was also below the advertised spec per the kre website. although not as bad as that block, his was below .200 in several places at a 4.350 bore. my customer has been trying to secure a refund from the vendor but has been told that it is not possible and the vendor will no longer take his phone calls. at this point he is trying to contact kre so he can get some kind of satisfaction.

[Ray Cox]

I too have had problems with my machinest calling and complaining about my Ia2 block

#1 complaint is he cant make any money on the thing because there was nothing to do except finish hone it and true the deck

# 2 complaint his flat rate of 125.00 to true the deck was a loss to him because the block was so strong he had to take more cuts and slower as to not ruin the cutters on his machine (must be the brinnlel)

# 3 complaint was to hard to move arond on the machine due to the weight

# 4 couldnt charge me extra to hone with a deck plate becuse the block is stong enough that it doesnt move even with the deck plate on or off

[rumair]

this just keeps getting better and better. the silence from the buckeye state is deafening...

[NW S/D]

Just for the record Brinnlel is a test for hardness not a material
Jeff.

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by Glenn

First off, I did make my problem known to Jeff Kauffman and I posted this "blow-off" response....ie, we got your money so don't bother us anymore. Sorry such arrogance in unexceptable. Believe me, Jeff is aware what is being discussed and yet he doesn't feel the the need to respond.

Ponjohn, your reactions to any negative post toward KRE leads me that you have more than just a casual interest in KRE.

Once again you're wrong. I have no other interest in KRE any more than you do. Reread what you quoted me on.

Reread you're very first post in the your thread- I asked if you contacted Jeff ( or any other vendor you bought stuff from, rather than posting first) and your repsonse was " No should I have?" Duh........OF COURSE.

Look, all I am saying here is IMO both of these threads have been prematurely posted. I'm not defending anyone nor am I saying they are without merrit. My point is and always will be that neither of these issues are resolved with the supplier and until they are, no threads should have been started.

Also- there are 3 sides to every story, yours, his and the truth.

Carry on.

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by ponjohn

Look, all I am saying here is IMO both of these threads have been prematurely posted.....My point is and always will be that neither of these issues are resolved with the supplier and until they are, no threads should have been started.

Sometimes there is no resolution forthcoming from the supplier/vendor. Returning the block to the supplier/vendor for inspection of defect(s) only to be told by the head proprietor that you're not going to get a refund (unless said defective block can be resold) is obviously not a satisfactory resolution to the creator of this thread. It seems to me the creator of this thread was not premature in posting at all. He gave KRE an opportunity to make it right and Steve Kaufmann refused. What's premature about posting that?

[ponjohn]

Brian-

Until it is resolved, if this means waiting till the lawyers hash it out then that's how long. I don't feel it is good business to have a play by play as the issue get's resloved, it should be posted when all is said and done.

I still contest this a tool that is used to try and resolve an issue rather than a tool to report a happy or sad outcome.

[Bob Rutledge]

Originally Posted by ponjohn

Brian-

Until it is resolved, if this means waiting till the lawyers hash it out then that's how long. I don't feel it is good business to have a play by play as the issue get's resloved, it should be posted when all is said and done.

I still contest this a tool that is used to try and resolve an issue rather than a tool to report a happy or sad outcome.

Would you rather some other individual is forked over while others are waitIng for the lawyers? I also believe Drunkin Injun is done dealing. He said in his post he is creating a website showing his issues, and is also bringing the MR-1 block on the road with him to show it's discrepancies.

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by ponjohn

Brian-

Until it is resolved, if this means waiting till the lawyers hash it out then that's how long. I don't feel it is good business to have a play by play as the issue get's resloved, it should be posted when all is said and done.

I still contest this a tool that is used to try and resolve an issue rather than a tool to report a happy or sad outcome.

Ok then...so 3 years from now, after Scott's lawyers and KRE's lawyers have met in court, and the court rules in favor of Scott, could he then be able to post, or does he have to wait until the appeal process is over?:rolleyes:

I don't think Scott needs to get a lawyer involved to report publicly about poor customer service...that's ridiculous.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by ponjohn

Once again you're wrong. I have no other interest in KRE any more than you do. Reread what you quoted me on.

Reread you're very first post in the your thread- I asked if you contacted Jeff ( or any other vendor you bought stuff from, rather than posting first) and your repsonse was " No should I have?" Duh........OF COURSE.

Look, all I am saying here is IMO both of these threads have been prematurely posted. I'm not defending anyone nor am I saying they are without merrit. My point is and always will be that neither of these issues are resolved with the supplier and until they are, no threads should have been started.

Also- there are 3 sides to every story, yours, his and the truth.

Carry on.

pohjohn; Not to jump on a bandwagon, but this is not an issolated issue that isn't being resolved. Being in somewhat of "the Loop " I receive e-mails and phone calls on my assessment of certan things produced out there. I try and be kind. It a big business world and a SMALL Pontiac community.

I know & personally have talked to a few Pontiac people that.....................
There are other people that purchased products the KRE block and heads out there with issues. The problem is people are afraid to say anything because of the involvement of KRE in the Pontiac community. Let's face it. They are in the for front of Pontiac development. And I have noticed that others including myself get shot at and take it on the cuff. 'Handle it to their abilities.'
BTW: I can back everything I have posted.

CUSTOMER SERVICE: I personally had issues with certain machining procedures on the early and some items on the later IA 2 blocks. No integral strength or casting issuses. I have personally built 8 of the IA 2 blocks. Sold 9. I notified AllPontiac and they took care of the extra costs involved over and above the normal work I would have had to do. No crap, no bullsh*t. THIS IS CUSTOMER SERVICE.

Also accepted some ideas I had as far as corrections to be made. Bob at one point became aggitated and we had words. He later called back and appoligized. He had had a bad day other then our conversations and felt bad. Oh BTW: THIS IS CUSTOMER SERVICE.

Did have one block with non correctable issues. They had it picked up, another send. No cost to me. THIS IS CUSTOMER SERVICE.

Back when all those huricanes hit and we got pounded with massive expenses, they worked with me thru the deal and purchasing blocks. THIS IS CUSTOMER SERVICE.


We all have issues from time to time in this business. We are human and make errors. But it's the person or companies that stands up or behind what they do or sell that makes one reputation.

If you notice this post has only developed as a last resort. But have seen others finally post their issues after it Hit the fan

Hope it gets resolved without egos taking over.

Hope these issues and others get resolved. The Pontiac community doesn't need the black marks from others looking in from the outside.

[twooldgoats]

Originally Posted by Brian Baker

The block you returned was resold to Steve Barcak at Norwalk this year, was it not?

Brian, I'm curious what leads you to make this statement. I got one of the two blocks that Steve picked up at Norwalk, so I'm all ears.

Jim

[Glenn]

Originally Posted by ponjohn

Brian-

Until it is resolved, if this means waiting till the lawyers hash it out then that's how long. I don't feel it is good business to have a play by play as the issue get's resloved, it should be posted when all is said and done.

I still contest this a tool that is used to try and resolve an issue rather than a tool to report a happy or sad outcome.

This case or mine will never see the light of day in a courtroom. All parties live in different states separated by 1000+ miles. Being harmed by KRE for $3000 certainly isn't enough to bring a lawyer or for the harmed parties to file even a small claim action. KRE knows this and that's why he's giving us the middle finger salute. I will say that if a few more unhappy campers step forward there might be a place of a class action suit.

I would consider this a sad outcome and this forum is exactly the place where such issues should be talked about openly and made public to the Pontiac community at large. Ponjohn, why haven't you made your protective feeling of other Pontiac business's in the past? I don't recall you coming forward to defend Rock & Roll at the numerous times people talk about their problems with Mr. Fulper. I've never said anything negative in the past about R&R because I've never had any business dealing with him, however I wouldn't ever use him or buy any of his products because what has been said in the past by people who have on forums like this one. This is exactly why the Pontiac Business Entities section is in place. I'll say it again Ponjohn, you protest to much for not having a dog in this fight. It's become quite obvious that KRE has no intention of trying resolving these matters.

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by twooldgoats

Brian, I'm curious what leads you to make this statement. I got one of the two blocks that Steve picked up at Norwalk, so I'm all ears.

Jim

Jim,

What casting mark is near the distributor hole? TC with a triangle?

If so, it could be the Brian Urich block that had pitting/porosity in the cylinder wall.

[Chris Roach]

My take on this situation is KRE may be well in over their heads in the development of the block, heads, etc... and anticipated sales have not supported their endeavor, thus taking a hit! Still, no excuse for not supporting their products and passing a problem onto customers.

It'll be interesting to see how such a heavy hitter in the pontiac community survives this one.

[fasteddy]

Surely the Kaufmans have a business insurance policy. I wonder if that would cover product liability?

[Chris Roach]

Originally Posted by fasteddy

Surely the Kaufmans have a business insurance policy. I wonder if that would cover product liability?

I would certianly hope so!

[twooldgoats]

Originally Posted by Brian Baker

Jim,

What casting mark is near the distributor hole? TC with a triangle?

If so, it could be the Brian Urich block that had pitting/porosity in the cylinder wall.

I just checked with my machine shop and they couldn't find any mark near the distributor except a small "I" or "1" about 3/8" long cast into the surface. No TC and no triangle.

Based on concerns expressed about the blocks, I had them sonic check it last week and they found no wall thinner than .307" (the block is bored to 4.330").

I ask again, on what basis did you make the remark about the blocks picked up by Steve Barcak at Norwalk? Like most Pontiac guys, I'm building a race engine on limited funds. I'm trying to put together a bullet-proof combination that I don't have to worry about and that won't split in two at high power levels like my '68 Pontiac factory block did. To that end, I need all the FACTUAL information I can get. Rumors don't cut it. They only add to the fog. If you have verifiable factual information you want to share, I welcome it and I'm sure others do as well. But if you're just passing on rumors or stirring the pot, keep it to yourself.

Jim

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by Glenn

This case or mine will never see the light of day in a courtroom. All parties live in different states separated by 1000+ miles. Being harmed by KRE for $3000 certainly isn't enough to bring a lawyer or for the harmed parties to file even a small claim action. KRE knows this and that's why he's giving us the middle finger salute. I will say that if a few more unhappy campers step forward there might be a place of a class action suit.

I would consider this a sad outcome and this forum is exactly the place where such issues should be talked about openly and made public to the Pontiac community at large. Ponjohn, why haven't you made your protective feeling of other Pontiac business's in the past? I don't recall you coming forward to defend Rock & Roll at the numerous times people talk about their problems with Mr. Fulper. I've never said anything negative in the past about R&R because I've never had any business dealing with him, however I wouldn't ever use him or buy any of his products because what has been said in the past by people who have on forums like this one. This is exactly why the Pontiac Business Entities section is in place. I'll say it again Ponjohn, you protest to much for not having a dog in this fight. It's become quite obvious that KRE has no intention of trying resolving these matters.

You're right becasue it's common knowledge he's an ass. I know 2 people personally that have dealt with him. One couldn't be happier and one carry's a receipt in his pocket to illustrate the screwing he got.

I beleive in the product KRE offers and I appreciate the effort they and BOP and Pacific, and All Pontiac and ....and.... put into the sport.

Once again my point is - I get agitated when it appears the forums are being used for balckmail rather than to report on an experience.

Dude- thats fine, I can appreciate good customer service. Not until the last few weeks has anything else been said. SOoooo if over the next few weeks more people come out of the closet and report on thier out of spec blocks or heads that don't flow ( not being sarcastic) then maybe I will change my tune.

It hard to put any weight on any negative comments about anybody when it is just a few reporting problems. Hence my argument.

Heck- maybe in a few weeks, I'll have decided I should have waited to post, we'll see.

Till then good day.

[Glenn]

What blackmail? People coming forward with their bad experiences about a vendor and the reaction of that vendor to the complainant being published seems to me to be open, fair, and above reproach. KRE has full access on this site to explain their side of the dispute. After a week KRE still has chosen not to take advantage of this opportunity. Instead, what we are seeing is you making negative comments against anyone that has a dispute with KRE. Are you KRE mouth piece/spokesperson by proxy? You keep trying to discredit the messengers and disregard the message.

I'm still waiting for Jeff Kauffman's response to my yesterdays email message about part of the problem I discovered with the heads I purchased from him.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by ponjohn

You're right becasue it's common knowledge he's an ass. I know 2 people personally that have dealt with him. One couldn't be happier and one carry's a receipt in his pocket to illustrate the screwing he got.

I beleive in the product KRE offers and I appreciate the effort they and BOP and Pacific, and All Pontiac and ....and.... put into the sport.

Once again my point is - I get agitated when it appears the forums are being used for balckmail rather than to report on an experience.

That's kinda harsh. LOL.

My take: The person reported MR-1 Block issues with facts and how it was handled.

Blackmail? He said it was a done deal as far as it was beng handled on the other end. No blackmail there?

There are MR-1 issues currently in the race section. Others have BLOCK issues after being notified of possible problems and then went and checked. They assumed because of the integrity of the manufacture that it wasn't a deal when purchasing. But have found out differently after checking the product and are waiting on how their purchases are going to be handled before reporting any results. If handled in an apropriate manner I don't think any posting will result to add fuel to a fire.
But if you had a block with a sonic checked .087 wall thickness and told "SOLD AS IS" and currently stated as such on the website. I personally don't like less then .147 but preferr ............. .165 min. The .165 is roughly a Performance Industry standard!!!!
Same deal applies to block integrity.
And currently there are posts in this section stating wall thickness in reference to MR-1 block available on the market?
What would you do with a $3,000 product that won't hold up to it's intended useage?

Yes, they have a right to ***** if they feel no closure. And there apparently isn't any in this case. He has a right to inform the public of possible issues that are out there. Remember this isn't an isolated case as far as problems incountered with the MR-1 block.
I've seen posts on here for trivial deals gone bad and nobody closed it or hammered the dude. ;)



unless they took up for B. F. Bwahahahahahahaha.