[tempest455]

As of today, the website does not mention cyl wall thickness at all.

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by Glenn

Am I the only one to have noticed that there are no longer any advertisements of KRE in this website since the controversy of their products and customer service began?

I noticed they were gone about two weeks ago.

[74t/a]

This really is not surprising to me at all. The aftermarket stuff has the first production run, and subsequent other runs are "usually" refined further. That is if the manufacturer cares about the product.

Dove machinery for example had to use another foundry for porosity problams in their castings. come to find out, the foundry was not using vergin material to cast the heads. This could also be the case as far as these blocks not passing the brinnell test. There could also be core shift occuring causing thick and thin cylinders. BUT, there is obviously a problem in the core mold, as the cyliinders are nowhere near the thickness they should be. The Kaufmans are in deep trouble with this project if the problems are not corrected in short order.

Bryan

[sharkbite]

I'm thinking I should wait a little while before buying my KRE heads after reading all this wonderful info, even though most of it is about his block.

On a off subject do his heads have problems, beside the over rated flow given on his site?

[BVR421]

Originally Posted by tempest455

As of today, the website does not mention cyl wall thickness at all.

http://www.archive.org/web/web.php

[Brian Baker]

Was just thinking about legal responsibilities and recourse. Did some web searching. There's a legal term called "fitness for a particular purpose". This means a product sold for a particular purpose should be fit for that purpose. In the case of these blocks, their particular purpose is to be able to install a crank, rods and pistons to form the foundation of an intermal combustion engine...not a doorstop. At a minimum, the engine should be able to run and power an automobile...doesn't have to be a high horsepower racing engine, just a simple engine to power an automobile. These blocks with the soft Brinell cannot fit this particular purpose, at any horsepower level high or low. Doesn't matter if it's 30 or 90 days past the date of sale either, as there was nothing about these blocks at the time of sale that made them "fit for a particular purpose" (ie - they didn't get soft with age).

Steve, in your case, since you purchased your block from Kevin Swaney of Tin Indian Performance, your recourse is with him. In turn, Kevin's would be with the manufacturer, K&M. A letter to the consumer protection department of the Ohio State Attorney General's office should get some action if phone calls aren't being answered. If not, I'd contact an attorney. Same goes for anyone having a problem with getting a resolution.

http://www.ag.state.oh.us/citizen/co...complaints.asp

[ponjohn]

Ill donate some stock rods if he wants to assemble it from junk parts to see how long it lasts. Ill also toss in a real mild Engle hyd cam.

Now that would be fun.

[johnta1]

If he's going to junk it, I'll take it off his hands.
I've ran worse and still didn't have problems.

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by johnta1

If he's going to junk it, I'll take it off his hands.
I've ran worse and still didn't have problems.

You've run cast iron blocks that were softer than the hardest aluminum available in the industry and didn't have problems?

[johnta1]

I believe the Brinell (and others) use a different scale/set of numbers for the different types of material tested.
160 on aluminum not the same as on cast steel.

I've never tested any of my blocks any way.

[poncho-mike]

Are the MR-1 blocks being cast in the states? Or are they being cast in the far east?

Mike

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by johnta1

I believe the Brinell (and others) use a different scale/set of numbers for the different types of material tested.
160 on aluminum not the same as on cast steel.

I've never tested any of my blocks any way.

http://www.gordonengland.co.uk/hardness/brinell.htm

John, the same formula is used to determine hardness regardless of the material tested. The only time I think you could say "160 on aluminum is not the same as on cast steel/iron" would be if different test pressures were used on each material, but then each would produce a different depth of indentation. I think an accurate way to compare would be to keep the test pressure the same. Nonetheless, I think we can all agree that a Brinell reading of 140 on cast iron is lower than that of even a factory OEM cast iron block, regardless of manufacture.

Have you ever had a reason to test any of your blocks for Brinell, John? Have you ever used an aftermarket Pontiac block in any of your cars?

[baron_]

i once heard that the heads were being cast in Dayton, Ohio

but that was speculation
so i'll further speculate that the blocks are cast there too

[Jagtec1]

I see the posts have been removed from the KRE discussion board. I'm surprised there has been no comment here from the KRE camp.

[johnta1]

John, the same formula is used to determine hardness regardless of the material tested. The only time I think you could say "160 on aluminum is not the same as on cast steel/iron" would be if different test pressures were used on each material, but then each would produce a different depth of indentation.

The standard diameter of the ball is 10 millimeters (0.3937 inch) and the pressure, 3000 kilograms (6614 pounds) in the case of iron and steel, while in the case of softer metals, a pressure of 500 kilograms (1102 pounds) is used. The diameter of the impression in the original instrument is measured by means of a microscope, after which the hardness numeral may be obtained without calculation directly from the table of "Hardness Numerals -- Brinell System". Instruments have been constructed later so as to eliminate the need of the use of a microscope for measuring the diameter of the impression.

Relation between Hardness of Materials and Ultimate Strength. -- A constant relationship exists between the hardness numeral as determined by the Brinell test and the ultimate strength of the material tested. The coefficients by which the hardness numerals must be multiplied to obtain the ultimate strength in kilograms per square millimeter may be determined by tests, and are constant for each class and kind of material, but they differ slightly for different materials and for materials treated in a different manner. The following coefficients are given for different grades of steel:

Steels, extra soft K = 0.360
Steels, soft and semi-hard K = 0.355
Steels, semi-hard K = 0.353
Steels, hard K = 0.349

It will be seen that these coefficients differ by but a slight amount for steel of different composition, and, as a general rule, the factor 0.355 may be used for all grades of steel.
Example: -- Assume that a hardness test of structural steel (semi-hard) by the Brinell method gave an impression of 4.6 millimeters. The hardness numeral, from the table, would be 170, and the ultimate strength, 0.355 x 170 = 60 kilograms per square millimeter.

Accuracy of Brinell Hardness Test. -- When commercial apparatus, as ordinarily used for making the Brinell test, is employed, and the test is carried out with ordinary care and precaution, it is reliable within an error of five Brinell units above or below the actual hardness. In other words, if the hardness of two pieces of metal is tested, and the difference on the Brinell scale is more than ten hardness units, it is certain that there is an absolute difference in the hardness of the pieces tested. With regard to the conditions under which the tests should be made, it may be stated that the pressure should be gradually applied for two minutes or more, and the pressure should be kept on the test piece for a period of at least five minutes.
Relation between Hardness and Wear of Steel. -- There is no definite relation between hardness, as measured by the Brinell hardness testing method, and wear. While, in general, a high Brinell hardness number may be expected to indicate a metal which will give better wear, there are so many exceptions that this test for indication wearing properties would be unreliable. As an example, Hadfield's manganese steel,which has a low Brinell hardness number, is one of the best steels as far as wear is concerned. The relation of either Brinell tests of ordinary wear tests to wear in actual practice is a subject which requires further investigation. Wear tests should be made along different lines, according to the actual uses to which the metal is to be put.




From http://www.zianet.com/ebear/metal/hardness.html



This is what I see on most of the sites.



I'm pretty cheap, I make enough HP for the amount I spend. 0$ =700HP
I go low 8's in 1/4. Next I may go faster than George with the stock block.:D

[ron cozzo]

Originally Posted by Jagtec1

I see the posts have been removed from the KRE discussion board. I'm surprised there has been no comment here from the KRE camp.

The post may have been removed because someone decided to take another cheap shot at Brian D'Amico. Hmmm, what could be the common denominator between this post and the trashing Brian post.

[Brian Baker]

Interesting read from a 1924 publication, thanks for sharing, John.

Predated aluminum though.

"Brinell's Test. -- In this method, a hardened steel ball is pressed into the smooth surface of the metal so as to make an indentation of a size such as can be conveniently measured under the microscope. The spherical area of the indentation being calculated and the pressure being known, the stress per unit of area when the ball comes to rest is calculated, and the hardness number obtained. Within certain limits, the value obtained is independent of the size of the ball and of the amount of pressure."

Still learning on my end.

PG (poor George).

[Pitch 400]

They are probably burning some midnight oil trying to figure out how to explain this deal.

[Brian Baker]

Here's some more interesting reading for anyone interested.

On this link are 25 listings under "gray cast iron":

http://www.matweb.com/search/GetSubcat.asp

Check the Brinell on numbers 1 and 10, and compare to some of the automotive gray cast iron listings, keeping in mind Steve's block measured 140, and Scott's 160.

If the link doesn't function properly, go to the material type search and select gray cast iron under ferrous metals.

[BILL BOWMAN1]

I'd just like to say-
Thank You Bob and Frank at All Pontiac for going through the pains of doing it the RIGHT way!!!!!!