[Steve Hoog]

I went back and re read both threads, so now I have a question for Bill.

Bill

When you found out the repair of the pump would cost $105; why did you not just say "no thanks" and have it returned to you?

I agree that it seems a bit silly not to be able to repair the pumps yourself; but then again Snap On sells the tamper proof tools, I guess the issue then would be getting the parts.

On the other hand BG Tech has a good point to that their service can flow test for maximum tuning; 99.9% of the end users can't do that.

My overall opinion is as follows; If Bill agreed to the repair after a bid was given, that would not give Bill license to slander BG.

My suggestion to BG; you would have been well advised to offer Bill a couple of brand new pumps at no charge for advertisement. While I personally think Bill is slightly in the wrong; it is my opinion that BG made the biggest mistake in not developing a sponsorship of Bills car.

Bill’s car is arguably the most recognized Pontiac in the last two years; not only is Bill’s car well known among Pontiac Enthusiast, but he crossed the line into mainstream Hot Roding with his double blower set up. To have Bill promoting BG both verbally and visibly on his car would have been invaluable.

BG lost this battle IMO.

[Region Warrior]

Was Bill looking for a sponcer?
Did BG know him, his car, or popularity?

I dont understand why people think companies should give stuff away all the time.
Especially after its warrenty period runs out.
Not to mention the "question" if it was used for the intended purpose it was designed for.

[Tech @ BG]

Originally Posted by steved400

I went back and re read both threads, so now I have a question for Bill.

Bill

When you found out the repair of the pump would cost $105; why did you not just say "no thanks" and have it returned to you?

I agree that it seems a bit silly not to be able to repair the pumps yourself; but then again Snap On sells the tamper proof tools, I guess the issue then would be getting the parts.

On the other hand BG Tech has a good point to that their service can flow test for maximum tuning; 99.9% of the end users can't do that.

My overall opinion is as follows; If Bill agreed to the repair after a bid was given, that would not give Bill license to slander BG.

My suggestion to BG; you would have been well advised to offer Bill a couple of brand new pumps at no charge for advertisement. While I personally think Bill is slightly in the wrong; it is my opinion that BG made the biggest mistake in not developing a sponsorship of Bills car.

Bill’s car is arguably the most recognized Pontiac in the last two years; not only is Bill’s car well known among Pontiac Enthusiast, but he crossed the line into mainstream Hot Roding with his double blower set up. To have Bill promoting BG both verbally and visibly on his car would have been invaluable.

BG lost this battle IMO.

I hear what you are saying but let me give you a little insight into it from our end. As you can imagine we get 100's of sponsorship requests a week and although a lot of them are from very worthy causes there is a lot of liability issues regarding street driven vehicles with the litigious society we have now . The other issue would be that we would not want to promote the 280 and that style of pumps for the street guys.

[Steve Hoog]

Originally Posted by Region Warrior

Was Bill looking for a sponcer?
Did BG know him, his car, or popularity?

Two things here:

1. I would make Bill want to have me as a sponsor, whether he was looking or not.

2. BG does know about Bill's car.

Originally Posted by Tech @ BG

I hear what you are saying but let me give you a little insight into it from our end. As you can imagine we get 100's of sponsorship requests a week and although a lot of them are from very worthy causes there is a lot of liability issues regarding street driven vehicles with the litigious society we have now . The other issue would be that we would not want to promote the 280 and that style of pumps for the street guys.

I am not picking on Bill or BG; I like Bill personally and I admire Tech BG for being in here. However they both left the laundry out to dry for public consumption; so I’m throwing in my two cents, I earned the right for reading these threads….haha

Bill’s car is a SPECIAL car; it should never be considered a street car or a race car (at this point), I still say it is my opinion that Bill’s car is the 1 car that is worth of having your product associated with. Give him 280 or whatever works, that would be the way I handle it.

[67GTONUT]

These threads wont stop me from considering the Six Shooter.......... the price might....LOL, but not these threads...

[Region Warrior]

[QUOTE=steved400;3362636]Two things here:

1. I would make Bill want to have me as a sponsor, whether he was looking or not.

2. BG does know about Bill's car.



1. Makes no sense.

2. Unless you change answers 1 and 2 around.

:)

[Region Warrior]

I can say BG does have some good products.

Have a 1090 Demon carb off a 572 bbc crate motor i loaned to a Ford guy run'n a 600+ ci ford ranger(low 8 sec car) while Qiuck Fuel was trick'n his carb.
Without changing jets he went faster then ever.
Ended up using it the rest of the season and finish 2nd in points(Pro Edelbrock series).

He finally got his carb back and returned mine.
Saw him a couple weeks ago T&T'n.
He wants to buy the carb ;)

[twisted]

Originally Posted by steved400

I went back and re read both threads, so now I have a question for Bill.

Bill

When you found out the repair of the pump would cost $105; why did you not just say "no thanks" and have it returned to you?

I agree that it seems a bit silly not to be able to repair the pumps yourself; but then again Snap On sells the tamper proof tools, I guess the issue then would be getting the parts.

On the other hand BG Tech has a good point to that their service can flow test for maximum tuning; 99.9% of the end users can't do that.

My overall opinion is as follows; If Bill agreed to the repair after a bid was given, that would not give Bill license to slander BG.

My suggestion to BG; you would have been well advised to offer Bill a couple of brand new pumps at no charge for advertisement. While I personally think Bill is slightly in the wrong; it is my opinion that BG made the biggest mistake in not developing a sponsorship of Bills car.

Bill’s car is arguably the most recognized Pontiac in the last two years; not only is Bill’s car well known among Pontiac Enthusiast, but he crossed the line into mainstream Hot Roding with his double blower set up. To have Bill promoting BG both verbally and visibly on his car would have been invaluable.

BG lost this battle IMO.

You more or less claimed that BG lost this battle, yet claim that Bill is in the wrong.

You say that even though Bill was wrong, BG should give him free products.

Ummm, am I missing something.......



And Tech@BG you can claim you are sponsering me with a free six shooter set up, and I will sign away any right to sue your company for anything to do with the claimed sponsership. :usa2:

[Steve Hoog]

I'm twisted, what else can I say.

[Tech @ BG]

Originally Posted by twisted

And Tech@BG you can claim you are sponsering me with a free six shooter set up, and I will sign away any right to sue your company for anything to do with the claimed sponsership. :usa2:

I wish it was that easy but I even had to pay for the one on my car...

[Steve Hoog]

IF BG had made the Six with enough meat for the E heads; I would have bought one.

[Ron Landis]

Originally Posted by Tech @ BG

I wish it was that easy but I even had to pay for the one on my car...

did YOUR'S fit?

[Bill Bolin]

P-Dude, the whole isue was that it was posted on this board that it was $25 to fix the pump if it was leaking. It didn't say on the specific thread i referenced that it was $25 "unless we find something else wrong". It said $25 to fix the leak. I had already mentioned it that thread that I figured it would cost $75-$150 to send it back and to me it wasn't worth that, I would buy a new pump. But a representative of their company got on the board and said, "It will cost $25 to fix the leak". So I figure what the he**, I'll send it back. Then I get a call saying the vanes are tore up, the seals are leaking and a bunch of other stuff is wrong with it. I told the person on the phone about the conversation on this board and what was said. HE checked into it and was told that "That isn't what I said" by Tech @ BG. In fact, that IS what he posted. My point was I knew better and it felt like a bait and switch to me......Tell me one thing and then get the pump and tell me something else. I knew that was gonna happen.....Was told it wouldn't and it DID. At that point, what were my options? They could send back a "broken" pump which already costed me $20 to ship to them and I would have to pay shipping back to me (probably another $20 or so) or I could say "Fix it" and feel like they had me by the balls but at least I could sell it to someone else and know it was working properly and hopefully not have issues with the person who bought it like the ones I had when I got it.

I NEVER sent the pump for a warranty claim!!! I never claimed I was the original owner of the pump. I didn't know what the policy was since it was never stated in the thread. All I read was send the pump back and we can fix the leak for $25. So I did.

This particular pump was used on a race car for LESS than 1 year. It was plumbed properly. It wasn't used continuously. It was pulled off a car, sat for two months and I installed it on my car. Upon installing it, it leaked. I NEVER even fired the car up with this pump on it!!! I removed the pump and sat it aside to rebuild later. Well, it has tamper proof screws on it so I didn't mess with it. I was reading PY and saw the thread about a BG pump and regulator and the rest is history.

I felt that the pump being LESS than 1 year old, the leak HAD to be just seals since it worked fine on the car it was on but that person switched to one bigger pump to feed their motor and nitrous instead of two seperate fuel systems. They never had an issue with the pump. It sat for two months so it was logical the seals got dry and leaked. My problem is why does a $370+ pump go bad after LESS than 1 year use on a RACE car that was plumbed properly and had a 500GPH filter before the pump? It shouldn't matter if I was the original owner or the 5th owner if it was installed and run as it was. I wasn't trying to get the pump fixed for free. I never claimed to be the original owner so BG claiming they went above and beyond is a bunch of crap since they didn't know any of this til after I told them to fix it for the $105!!! They didn't know who Bill Bolin was. They didn't know that pump came from Pontiac462 on PY. All they knew was they got a BG280 pump back for repair. They called me with the price and I pointed out what I was told by one of their representatives. They told me I can't read and what i read was about a regulator, not the pump. That wasn't the case as I have cut and pasted the thread I was talking about. Tell me where it says in that thread anything about a regulator. Tell me where it says anything about "$25 to fix the leak unless we find something else wrong." If it did, I would have never sent it back and would have borrowed a friends tamper-proof tools and removed the cover and fixed it myself.

Now, even after ALL THIS, Tech @ BG is on another website stating this:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The seals that everyone has been complaining of are the same seals that we had used for over 20 years before switching to an improved seal a few months ago . Both the Magna and PE pumps were derived from the BG design and also share the same exact original design seal and have from their start and still do. I guess we are a victim of our own sucess in that with all these pumps in the field now we are seeing those that leak . With 20+ plus years of pumps with these seals and seeing they were leaking we undertook a long search to find a seal that would be an improvement and still work in the existing housing. This took over a year but we came up with the walrus seal that is more durable and offers better sealing than the seals we used previously that everyone else still does. We incorporated this upgrade into our pumps whereas most manufacturers would have forced you into buying the upgraded pump instead. This new walrus seal is also being installed into any of the pumps that come in for repairs without an increase in the price of the repair.We do keep careful records and were able to see that approx 1 1/2% of all pumps come in for service every year. Any product of any type that has a seal that comes in contact with a rotating shaft will eventually need a replacement seal which is why you will see oil on the road from rear ends,transmissions,rear mains and harmonic balancers.
Barry got into the fuel pump business because he got tired of throwing away the old Holley blues when they leaked at 90.00 each x2 for 180.00 not to mention they would not keep up with the power level of what the engines were needing. Here's the thing... if you haven't ran gravel [had one guy come up with a wire tie in his] or pulled rubber into the cell from the vent and all the pump needs is a reseal it runs 25.00 plus the return shipping. There is no "greed" involved with this but rather due diligence about product safety and making sure you guys have a safe product as well as one that works properly. 25.00 to disassemble,reseal and flow test a fuel pump is not a high price to pay and we definitely do not make any money doing that so it certainly is not about greed but rather offering customer service! We have more pumps out in the field than any other manufacturer so you are bound to hear more about us. Unfortunately we are not able to produce a product that will not wear or leak over time but neither is anybody else. Our goal is to provide a good product that can be repaired at a nominal charge when in does need service so that you don't have to throw it in the trash. Certainly if we have given poor customer service at times in the past we apologize for it as it was not our intent but that is also the reason why BG got rid of those already mentioned.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He is saying the EXACT same thing here!!!!!!! Where is their a disclaimer that it "COULD" cost more???? Where does it say anything about original purchaser only? Where does it say anything about plumbed properly? This is the EXACT misleading statement that got this whole thread started. I never ran "gravel, rubber or wire ties" through mine but look what happened!!!!

Ken, I understand your analogy of the head repair. I know things happen. I knew that before I sent the pump back. That is why I said on the ORIGINAL thread that I expected it to be $75-$150 and didn't intend on sending the pump back for repair. Tech @ BG assured me otherwise so I "FELL" for it. Everyone hates the feeling you get when you think you have been taken advantage of. My only recourse was to come back on the thread and warn others of what happened. I hope this clears it up a bit. If not, I guess everyone will have to make up their own minds. Lesson learned.

All that being said, I DO have a BG280 pump on my car. It worked for almost a year before it started to leak. It has been on my car leaking for a short while but the leak is minimal. Do you think I will send it back to BG to be repaired? Nope. I will remove it and replace it with a different brand pump. I also have a Holley blue pump on the car for the nitrous side of the fuel system. I only bought the second BG280 pump to replace the Holley blue pump so the pumps would match when people looked under the car. Soon I will have two matching pumps........they just won't be Barry Grant!

[Tech @ BG]

Originally Posted by Pontiac462

P-Dude, the whole isue was that it was posted on this board that it was $25 to fix the pump if it was leaking. It didn't say on the specific thread i referenced that it was $25 "unless we find something else wrong". It said $25 to fix the leak. I had already mentioned it that thread that I figured it would cost $75-$150 to send it back and to me it wasn't worth that, I would buy a new pump. But a representative of their company got on the board and said, "It will cost $25 to fix the leak". So I figure what the he**, I'll send it back. Then I get a call saying the vanes are tore up, the seals are leaking and a bunch of other stuff is wrong with it. I told the person on the phone about the conversation on this board and what was said. HE checked into it and was told that "That isn't what I said" by Tech @ BG. In fact, that IS what he posted. My point was I knew better and it felt like a bait and switch to me......Tell me one thing and then get the pump and tell me something else. I knew that was gonna happen.....Was told it wouldn't and it DID. At that point, what were my options? They could send back a "broken" pump which already costed me $20 to ship to them and I would have to pay shipping back to me (probably another $20 or so) or I could say "Fix it" and feel like they had me by the balls but at least I could sell it to someone else and know it was working properly and hopefully not have issues with the person who bought it like the ones I had when I got it.

I NEVER sent the pump for a warranty claim!!! I never claimed I was the original owner of the pump. I didn't know what the policy was since it was never stated in the thread. All I read was send the pump back and we can fix the leak for $25. So I did.

This particular pump was used on a race car for LESS than 1 year. It was plumbed properly. It wasn't used continuously. It was pulled off a car, sat for two months and I installed it on my car. Upon installing it, it leaked. I NEVER even fired the car up with this pump on it!!! I removed the pump and sat it aside to rebuild later. Well, it has tamper proof screws on it so I didn't mess with it. I was reading PY and saw the thread about a BG pump and regulator and the rest is history.

I felt that the pump being LESS than 1 year old, the leak HAD to be just seals since it worked fine on the car it was on but that person switched to one bigger pump to feed their motor and nitrous instead of two seperate fuel systems. They never had an issue with the pump. It sat for two months so it was logical the seals got dry and leaked. My problem is why does a $370+ pump go bad after LESS than 1 year use on a RACE car that was plumbed properly and had a 500GPH filter before the pump? It shouldn't matter if I was the original owner or the 5th owner if it was installed and run as it was. I wasn't trying to get the pump fixed for free. I never claimed to be the original owner so BG claiming they went above and beyond is a bunch of crap since they didn't know any of this til after I told them to fix it for the $105!!! They didn't know who Bill Bolin was. They didn't know that pump came from Pontiac462 on PY. All they knew was they got a BG280 pump back for repair. They called me with the price and I pointed out what I was told by one of their representatives. They told me I can't read and what i read was about a regulator, not the pump. That wasn't the case as I have cut and pasted the thread I was talking about. Tell me where it says in that thread anything about a regulator. Tell me where it says anything about "$25 to fix the leak unless we find something else wrong." If it did, I would have never sent it back and would have borrowed a friends tamper-proof tools and removed the cover and fixed it myself.

Now, even after ALL THIS, Tech @ BG is on another website stating this:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The seals that everyone has been complaining of are the same seals that we had used for over 20 years before switching to an improved seal a few months ago . Both the Magna and PE pumps were derived from the BG design and also share the same exact original design seal and have from their start and still do. I guess we are a victim of our own sucess in that with all these pumps in the field now we are seeing those that leak . With 20+ plus years of pumps with these seals and seeing they were leaking we undertook a long search to find a seal that would be an improvement and still work in the existing housing. This took over a year but we came up with the walrus seal that is more durable and offers better sealing than the seals we used previously that everyone else still does. We incorporated this upgrade into our pumps whereas most manufacturers would have forced you into buying the upgraded pump instead. This new walrus seal is also being installed into any of the pumps that come in for repairs without an increase in the price of the repair.We do keep careful records and were able to see that approx 1 1/2% of all pumps come in for service every year. Any product of any type that has a seal that comes in contact with a rotating shaft will eventually need a replacement seal which is why you will see oil on the road from rear ends,transmissions,rear mains and harmonic balancers.
Barry got into the fuel pump business because he got tired of throwing away the old Holley blues when they leaked at 90.00 each x2 for 180.00 not to mention they would not keep up with the power level of what the engines were needing. Here's the thing... if you haven't ran gravel [had one guy come up with a wire tie in his] or pulled rubber into the cell from the vent and all the pump needs is a reseal it runs 25.00 plus the return shipping. There is no "greed" involved with this but rather due diligence about product safety and making sure you guys have a safe product as well as one that works properly. 25.00 to disassemble,reseal and flow test a fuel pump is not a high price to pay and we definitely do not make any money doing that so it certainly is not about greed but rather offering customer service! We have more pumps out in the field than any other manufacturer so you are bound to hear more about us. Unfortunately we are not able to produce a product that will not wear or leak over time but neither is anybody else. Our goal is to provide a good product that can be repaired at a nominal charge when in does need service so that you don't have to throw it in the trash. Certainly if we have given poor customer service at times in the past we apologize for it as it was not our intent but that is also the reason why BG got rid of those already mentioned.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He is saying the EXACT same thing here!!!!!!! Where is their a disclaimer that it "COULD" cost more???? Where does it say anything about original purchaser only? Where does it say anything about plumbed properly? This is the EXACT misleading statement that got this whole thread started. I never ran "gravel, rubber or wire ties" through mine but look what happened!!!!

Ken, I understand your analogy of the head repair. I know things happen. I knew that before I sent the pump back. That is why I said on the ORIGINAL thread that I expected it to be $75-$150 and didn't intend on sending the pump back for repair. Tech @ BG assured me otherwise so I "FELL" for it. Everyone hates the feeling you get when you think you have been taken advantage of. My only recourse was to come back on the thread and warn others of what happened. I hope this clears it up a bit. If not, I guess everyone will have to make up their own minds. Lesson learned.

All that being said, I DO have a BG280 pump on my car. It worked for almost a year before it started to leak. It has been on my car leaking for a short while but the leak is minimal. Do you think I will send it back to BG to be repaired? Nope. I will remove it and replace it with a different brand pump. I also have a Holley blue pump on the car for the nitrous side of the fuel system. I only bought the second BG280 pump to replace the Holley blue pump so the pumps would match when people looked under the car. Soon I will have two matching pumps........they just won't be Barry Grant!

Bill, as I posted on the other site you really dont wart to start back on this... You and Scott [our sales manager] had a conversation in which you asked us to quit posting about you which we did and now you want to try to keep putting lies out when things are not going your way on here. YOU clearly stated in the February thread on here which is in plain site to everyone to see that the pump had been on a car for over a year and now you keep telling the lie that it was under a year.... you know that point really is mute though as you were extended the courtesy of warranty. Now here are the facts that you cannot deny....

[1] The pump WAS over a year old by your own admission on this board.

[2] YOU were given an estimate up front and told us to fix it.

[3] You were also given the option to have us stop the shipment after you started complaining and have us pull the new parts and send it back to you at no charge.

[4] You didn't even start posting until after the pump was already in route to you.

[5] You told Jeff you bought the pump used for 250.00 from a buddy and we DID know that prior to the repair.

[6] The post says if ALL it needs is a reseal and you want to keep trying to twist that around. Once again you already knew if it needed more there would be additional charges from the past dealings you mentioned in the February thread. Who do you think you are fooling here?

and lastly.......the 280's are not for street use and continuous duty for which you are trying to use them. With the amount of driving you do with your car I am suprised the other one has stood up as they were not built for that. You are using the wrong pump for the application. Once again not our fault.

Now... I was man enough to quit posting when you asked us to and will do so again...the choice is yours. As you posted earlier "end of story" . Boths sides stories are on here and I think most have formed an opinion by now anyway.

[Rob B]

I'm running out of popcorn....:popcorn:

[Steve Hoog]

:popcorn:

[Firedup6975]

Sad VERY sad!:( Our Hobby is threatened enough, it's very sad to see this kind of thing where a meeting of the minds just can't seem to find a reasonable solution to the issues brought to the table. Hope it can somehow be resolved. We all pretty much would agree it's our love for the hobby, that we do the things we do with our Cars, even if it's a business we have, obviously that business may be our livelihood, but more times than not, we had to first have a love for something before we become business owners. I feel for both parties involved, it's not easy having a business right now in the Car Enthusiast field, with the economy crashing around us, as well not an easy time for Hobbyist either. OK off my soapbox it pains me to see stories such as this withing our Family circle here. I wish all involved well, and for the continued positives this great hobby brings to our lives, hope things can be worked out.

Good luck all!

[Tech @ BG]

Originally Posted by FIREDup6975

Sad VERY sad!:( Our Hobby is threatened enough, it's very sad to see this kind of thing where a meeting of the minds just can't seem to find a reasonable solution to the issues brought to the table. Hope it can somehow be resolved. We all pretty much would agree it's our love for the hobby, that we do the things we do with our Cars, even if it's a business we have, obviously that business may be our livelihood, but more times than not, we had to first have a love for something before we become business owners. I feel for both parties involved, it's not easy having a business right now in the Car Enthusiast field, with the economy crashing around us, as well not an easy time for Hobbyist either. OK off my soapbox it pains me to see stories such as this withing our Family circle here. I wish all involved well, and for the continued positives this great hobby brings to our lives, hope things can be worked out.

Good luck all!

Actually I had thought this had been resolved until I read Bill's new post. Scott who is our sales manager is originally from the same area as Bill and they know some of the same people up there. Bill apparently went into a shop up there badmouthing Scott personally to a friend of Scott's as well as BG yet Scott was not even aware of or involved with Bill's pump being here. Scott recv a phone call with these details to which he called Bill personally and Bill stated that if we would quit posting about him and chasing him around the internet that he would quit posting about us as well. He was also given the opportunity at that time to have the pump shipment turned around and brought back to us where we would remove the new parts and return it to Bill in the same shape it was sent in to which Bill declined. The pump had already left prior to Bill starting all these threads so his accusations that we would sabotage his pump are totally unfounded and without any merit. The ball is back in Bill's court and we will abide by his original agreement with Scott if he will but we will not let him continue to bash us without stepping up to defend ourselves in the matter.

[Steve Hoog]

:popcorn:

[Tech @ BG]

I was looking back through the original thread mentioned above and here is another post that I made as well when Danny asked me about the repair cost I know we had his in here as well and repaired them and I think he was happy with the service he received on them.
...........................................
03-04-2008, 08:11 AM
Tech @ BG
Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dahlonega, GA
Posts: 233



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goathead
At what cost? Just freight? Everytime I have one redone, it ain't cheap....

Parts and shipping only dependant upon what they require to get them back to spec. If all they need is a reseal,thats all we do. We only replace what is bad. Properly plumbed and in the intended application [race only] they are fairly trouble free and we see guys run them 3 ,4 , 5 years and even longer and never have an issue with them. Where we se most of the issues is where guys are running them on the street or they have sat up for awhile or the plumbing is wrong. 280's have to be fed with a 10 inlet and 400's with a 12. Both pumps have to be gravity fed and have adequate vents as well.
__________________
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Barry Grant, Inc.

BG Fuel System, Demon Carburetors, Nitrous Works, Rush Filters

www.barrygrant.com