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  #41  
Old 01-14-2020, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin View Post
I couldn't agree more about a Vibe.
The 4 cylinder base models have TOYOTA Drivetrains, and NO Timing Belt to maintain (chain drive).
Excellent fuel economy on 87 octane and good safety features to boot.

Researched them a couple of years ago for a friend, and was totally amazed//surprised.
Toyota had the same vehicle under another body name, so it's not an orphan.

Aftermarket has most all the Pontiac body parts for them in the event of a fender bender.

The GT's require Premium Fuel and the economy drops pretty sharp.
That is because Toyota made them for GM. GM is also the reason why Toyota stopped making them for GM. The Toyota version was called the Matrix and carried a 60mo./60,000mi. warranty. GM would only warranty the Vibe for 36mo./36,000mi.

The Vibe GT was a premium fuel burner, only came with a 6 speed manual and was plagued with transmission problems. The Vibe/Matrix at one time was one of the hottest vehicles on the market. However, as time went on, crossmember rot pretty much killed their desire as well as resale value and condemned them to the boneyards.

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I rarely agree with Chief on anything but...........
  #42  
Old 01-14-2020, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 1965gp View Post
Some really good points in here. I like the Solstice- tgat is definitely an option I have considered.

The Firehawk in question is a 6 speed and I agree that one of the reasons to have that is to deter other kid from driving it. It also has a harness bar in the back seat- bolts where the seat belts go in the back seat for the 5 point harnesses to attach to essentially making it a two seater. I’m big on not having distractions- a two seater is perfect.

I appreciate everyone’s insight- helped me accept that my definition of cool and get definition of cool may not be the same.
Careful with a Solstice if she is short. There is not much seat adjustment and you sit low, very low. So the dash is difficult to see over. Very few Solstices were made with a power seat, but for short people there still isn't enough seat adjustment.

The Solstice is cool, but not for everybody.

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I rarely agree with Chief on anything but...........
  #43  
Old 01-14-2020, 02:04 PM
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My step-daughter was the passenger in really horrific three-car accident about ten years ago. Despite the fact that it was a three car crash with two of them hitting head on, everyone walked away. The car she was in? a 1997 Buick LeSabre. Any front-drive GM full-size, Like a Bonneville, LeSabre, Park Avenue or Delta 88 are blessed with a tremendously strong unibody structure. If you get in an accident with one of those, odds are you will win.

My son has had two LeSabres as a result. They have the 3800 V-6 and aren't so fast that your daughter is going to get in over her head. This is a solid vehicle platform that will serve you both well when the inevitable happens.

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  #44  
Old 01-14-2020, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Greg Reid View Post
This is my philosophy. I'd get her something like a mid-2000s Crown Vic and not care too much if she loved it or not. When she buys it, let that be the one she loves.
My son's first car was a '78 Bonneville. He beat the crap out of it, wrecked it a couple of times and bought for himself what he really wanted when he joined the Navy.
Funny, he's nostalgic about the Bonneville now and says he wouldn't mind having another.
Cheap to buy, dependable and easy to work on, Plus a safe car.

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  #45  
Old 01-14-2020, 06:13 PM
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granted, i skimmed over most of the posts, but it reads as though most are more or less in line with my thoughts;

1) wow - a 16yo with a Firehawk - I could have only been so lucky.

2) granted it's not the most powerful car out there, but would you trust her with it.

3) I agree that limiting the number of passengers is a really good idea; unless someone is willing to sit on the "hump" (and I did many times in high school) she will be limited to three passengers.

4) I don't think this comes down to perception of reliability, becuase if you fix it, and maintain it, it will be just as reliable as you want it to be.

5) I am now of the mindset that something that can take some abuse, and/or something with less power is a good move for a first time driver.

Some other great first cars in my opinion:
- 85-91 Grand Am (coupe or sedan; if you find one with a 2.5L they are generally under 100hp!)
- 89(?)-94 Cavalier/Sunbird (any engine)
- 95-04 Cavalier/Sunfire (any engine)
- 04-10 Cobalt/G5 2.2L (they're actually fine cars, in spite of the perception from recalls)

I would definitely expect her to do some (unintended) damage to the car, so as cool as a Firehawk might seem, unless you really know your daughter, I'd maybe consider passing.

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  #46  
Old 01-14-2020, 06:18 PM
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A 2008-9 G6 sedan would be good. 2005 Bonneville SLE would work, too. Safe cars, good drivetrains, dependable. Good luck!

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  #47  
Old 01-14-2020, 06:18 PM
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2006-2008 Subaru Outback, my opinion.

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  #48  
Old 01-14-2020, 06:33 PM
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1/2 ton GMC regular cab Pick up truck. 2004 -2014 .Safe, full frame, and not many passengers. Great visibility. Economy is great on a v-6. With AFM, they run in V-4 and get 27 mpg. Another bonus is that she can pick up parts for you!

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  #49  
Old 01-14-2020, 06:54 PM
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Those of you saying "get a small car to limit the number of passengers" must not remember your teenage years.

2 people can ride quite comfortably in the back of a CRX, and 3 people in an MR2 was easily doable. I had a Nissan 200SX (very small backseat) and used to do 4 hour drives with as many as 7 people in there. (at 100 mph+).

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  #50  
Old 01-14-2020, 06:55 PM
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In senior year (73) my parents kindly bought me a car. A Country Squire station wagon, 1966. Fake wood paneling. My point is, this is an opportunity for you. Be the Butthead Dad, or the Cool Dad. I would involve her in the decision. You could put her through the embarrassment I had In the same situation my daughter got a used Outback. Made sense here in snow zone.

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  #51  
Old 01-14-2020, 08:20 PM
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I’m not going to jump into anything- I still may buy the Firehawk for me- if she likes it then she can drive it. If not I can sell the Hawk and get her something she likes.

She’s the daughter I’m not worried about- the other one gets an Uber account.

  #52  
Old 01-14-2020, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bird72 View Post
In senior year (73) my parents kindly bought me a car. A Country Squire station wagon, 1966. Fake wood paneling. My point is, this is an opportunity for you. Be the Butthead Dad, or the Cool Dad. I would involve her in the decision. You could put her through the embarrassment I had In the same situation my daughter got a used Outback. Made sense here in snow zone.
I can understand why a teenager wouldn't be too happy with it, but I would love to own a '66 Country Squire now.

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  #53  
Old 01-14-2020, 10:26 PM
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Not wanting to cause any drama- I think we’ve all made it clear what our favorite makes are and why.

Yes- a corolla or civic is the smart, boring choice. I don’t really have to worry about rust where I am at on anything less than 30 yrs old. If there is rust you just go find another one that doesn’t have it.

I would feel like crap if my daughter had to drive something she hated when I have a garage full of fun cars I’m not going to let her drive. I’m not saying that it needs to be nice, expensive, fast or luxurious- I just want her to like it.

I’ve taken a few really good point from this conversation-

Make the kid pay at least half of the insurance so they have investment

Involve the kid in any fixing up, cleaning up so they appreciate and care for the vehicle.

Involve the kid in the selection- no use in going through all this if she isn’t going to like it.

I still think it would be an awesome first car (you would be sick at the vehicles in the school parking lot- SRT8’s, new mustangs, bmw’s, New trucks, SUV’s, etc)... but I need to know if she feels that way

  #54  
Old 01-14-2020, 10:42 PM
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Getting back to the subject...... You never mentioned the budget. That's always the make it or break it factor. It is a major factor on the perspective vehicle's age and miles. If the budget allows something new enough, I personally would get something new enough that has side impact air bags but not too new that it has a "screen" vs. analog dials and gauges. Call me old school but kids (and people in general) are distracted enough today. These techno-geek cars with video screens to operate the radio and the HVAC system are just too much of a distraction and therefore IMO, unsafe, especially for a new driver.

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I rarely agree with Chief on anything but...........
  #55  
Old 01-14-2020, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by 1965gp View Post
Not wanting to cause any drama- I think we’ve all made it clear what our favorite makes are and why.

Yes- a corolla or civic is the smart, boring choice. I don’t really have to worry about rust where I am at on anything less than 30 yrs old. If there is rust you just go find another one that doesn’t have it.

I would feel like crap if my daughter had to drive something she hated when I have a garage full of fun cars I’m not going to let her drive. I’m not saying that it needs to be nice, expensive, fast or luxurious- I just want her to like it.

I’ve taken a few really good point from this conversation-

Make the kid pay at least half of the insurance so they have investment

Involve the kid in any fixing up, cleaning up so they appreciate and care for the vehicle.

Involve the kid in the selection- no use in going through all this if she isn’t going to like it.

I still think it would be an awesome first car (you would be sick at the vehicles in the school parking lot- SRT8’s, new mustangs, bmw’s, New trucks, SUV’s, etc)... but I need to know if she feels that way
Personaly, I'd never put a new driver in a dinky entry level 10-15 year old small front wheel drive car. Have always thought it better to have something of more substantial size that is safer while being dependable. Two of my friends are medical appliance reps, set in on orthopedic surgeries. Both of them have seen many folks with major feet, knee, hip, back, and neck issues. quite a few of those lower extremitie injuries were the results of automobile wrecks. For several years I got a smile out of what vehicles both of these men w large familys put their newly minted teenage drivers in; late 90's 2wd Suburbans at one house. The other bought 6.0 Excursions, a 6.0 3/4 ton 4WD van, a 7.3 & a 6.0 3/4 ton 4 door pickup. Both fellows had their favorite mechanic shops & spent heavily. Used to joke with the latter one, he could use two big diesel tanks to be refilled every month. though i drive a 3/4 ton diesel, he didnt think itnwas amusing. Also wouldnt give any credence to by limiting amt of friends in a car to just two that distractions are majorly reduced. The number one distraction with young drivers is their d@mn cell phones, ride in the back seat with three 16-30 year olds with their phones. It really doesn't matter how mature they are, or if they didn't get their license till 18, nearly everyone of them is mentally connected to their phones.

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  #56  
Old 01-14-2020, 11:16 PM
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The simple answer would be whatever is:

1) dependable enough that you aren't going to be fixing it every week or paying someone else to do so...
2) cheap enough that if it gets wiped out you won't feel too bad about it.

If she happens to like it, that's an added bonus.

  #57  
Old 01-15-2020, 12:51 AM
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I wholeheartedly agree with the larger recent GM front drive cars. '97 is a 22 year old car so it would have to be a real creampuff. But anyway the idea I like is to have a larger, hopefully dependable vehicle that is bigger than the next guy's, for a loved one. A Yukon or a pickup. It's a car hit car world. Perception or not, I would feel better with them in that, rather than a roller skate of a car. After that, then they can get a Toyota. HaHa. And save your breath on the Toyota bashing. Their reputation is not based upon fairy tales.

  #58  
Old 01-15-2020, 01:04 AM
1965gp 1965gp is offline
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Since I wasn’t really looking for this car I don’t really have a budget. For conversation sake let’s say up to $7500

  #59  
Old 01-15-2020, 01:24 AM
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300,000 miles on a Toyota is average and it will still run and drive fine with minimal maintenance. I love 'em....
I haven't had any rust problems at all with any Toyota I've owned. 1970s and 1980s Datsun/Nissans, yes, but not any of my Toyotas. Of course, rust isn't a huge issue down here with any car.
My suggestion of something like a fullsize Crown Vic is really based on my general priorities for a youthful, first time driver that I care about...
#1. Safety
#2. Reliability
And a distant #3...Likeability
In Georgia there are special requirements for 16 y.o. drivers for the first year.
I think they are good rules for any young driver-
https://drivesmartgeorgia.com/blog/what-is-joshuas-law/

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  #60  
Old 01-15-2020, 10:38 AM
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Default Daughters first T/A

I built this for my daughter for her first car. She wanted it. First ride she didn't like the long nose. She wound up using our 2001 PT Cruiser for a few years.
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