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#1
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Street solid roller lifters
Today I began removing my Elderbrock heads for some parts update, including springs , seals and guides if needed
For the past 8 years I have been running Crower Hippo solid roller lifters without issue All street duty . Are there any better solid rollers that have come to market for severe duty? I'm hearing comp makes endurex . Are they better than Crower? Thanks for any recommendation |
#2
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I was thinking of trying their needle less solid rollers in my next build. Not crazy about the price though.
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#3
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Quote:
Why change if they are fine? Show any wear? |
#4
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Do you have a part number for the needleless solid rollers? They're probably better for severe street duty?
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#5
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lifters
I run the comp endurex and they are great lifters but the crower are as good or better. Either is fine in a street application. One watch out is the old comp lifters prior to the pin oiling option use the same part number.
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#6
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No sign of wear , just exploring options for needleless lifters.
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The Following User Says Thank You to 68WarDog For This Useful Post: | ||
#7
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I like Crower roller lifters and for street use, the HIPPO option on needle bearings would be my choice. Solid bushing version is generally recommended for much higher spring rates than generally used in street roller set-ups. The only other lifter I could recommend that might be considered "better" would be the Jesel link bar lifters. They do make them to order for Pontiac applications. I recommend sitting down and having an adult beverage before looking at the cost. About triple the Crower lifters. No comment on Comp lifters. FWIW, keeping close tabs on the lash is what really extends solid roller lifter life. Use the recommended lash and stay on the tight end of the recommended lash. The pounding on the roller and needles from loose lash is what beats the hell out of the lifters. Once the lash is taken up, the lifter and bearings can easily handle the load. Also, weak springs that allow valve bounce kills the lifters.
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#8
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Are the endurex needleless?
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#9
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Isky makes a Pontiac EZ roll and you can have the oiling hole added. Ace at PPR used to sell them but I am unaware of a current vendor. Isky customer service is first rate.
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#10
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Quote:
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#11
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Decided on the Crower Enduramax part # 66494x842E. These are bush & hippo
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#12
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Those are very nice lifters and should work well. You are running more spring pressure than I anticipated in my first post. Jesel has stated that they prefer a needle bearing with lower spring pressures because the bushing lifters can skid under low load and eventually begin to flat spot the bushings. Crower doesn't say that to my knowledge. I assume you know Crower will rebuild your old lifters if you wanted to reuse them with new bearings and rollers.
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#13
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If you get Crower to rebuild your old lifters, they will put bushings into them if you ask.
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#14
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Quote:
That’s the same exact one I was looking at. Butler has them for $1089.95. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
#15
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That's a great idea . Will call their tech support Monday
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#16
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I use the Crower Cutaway Severe-Duty solid roller lifters w/HIPPO option. I've had two instances of failure. Each time only one lifter went bad and all the others looked fine. Upon inspection Crower had no clue as to why each time. The first failure was four years ago after about 5200 street miles and they were needle bearing type. At that time I bought a new lifter and the others were rebuilt and changed to bushed lifters. About 10 months ago I lost another lifter after about 2600 street miles. Again they were sent back to Crower. After a phone conversation regarding the bushed lifters Crower wanted me to go back to needle type lifters. During the conversation they stated If bushed solid roller lifters sit for any length of time not driven then there are potential issues. They suggested needle bearings retain the oil better than bushed lifters.
A fwiw, my oil pressure has been fine and for a bushed type lifter the spring pressure was not intense. I have a T&D shaft system in use, Luhn oil pump, use synthetic oil, hollow stem intake valves, titanium retainers, etc, etc.... quality parts. And we stay on top of checking valve lash and spring pressure. .
__________________
'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 ) Old information here: http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/ Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine) 5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE Last edited by Steve C.; 01-09-2021 at 02:14 AM. |
#17
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Steve, they are failing because of the "battleship" valve springs you use to keep those aggressive lobe profiles in check on a street engine.
If you were drag racing they would have been fine for nearly 21,000 track runs if I did the math correctly. Reduce the spring pressure about 60-80 pounds on the seat and move to a cam with "softer" opening/closing specs and I'll bet you a steak dinner at your favorite diner you woln't be back in that engine again for issues with your roller lifters!.......Cliff
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If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a Veteran! https://cliffshighperformance.com/ 73 Ventura, SOLD 455, 3740lbs, 11.30's at 120mph, 1977 Pontiac Q-jet, HO intake, HEI, 10" converter, 3.42 gears, DOT's, 7.20's at 96mph and still WAY under the roll bar rule. Best ET to date 7.18 at 97MPH (1/8th mile), |
The Following User Says Thank You to Cliff R For This Useful Post: | ||
#18
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Yep, after talking to Steve and many others my feeling is that these solid roller lifter failures are directly related to spring pressures more than anything else.
Dad had a failure too, using the same Crower hippo bushed rollers with pin oiling. About as good of a solid roller lifter you can get in a decent price range, and 2 of them failed after about 5,000 miles. It was a tight lash roller too and never had excessive valve lash when checked, just one day 2 rollers decided they had enough. Not really excessive spring pressure either according to quite a few top engine builders. These springs were only 240 lbs. seat pressure which I'm told is very common in a street application with a medium sized solid roller and exactly where Tony Bischoff felt was a safe area for a street engine. Nothing near the 270-280 lbs. seat pressure you hear about with very aggressive profiles. Some others go extremely tame on spring pressure down to 180-200 lbs. seat pressure but I would have to guess, as Cliff mentions you would really need a very soft closing rate on the lobe or you'll have valve bounce on the seats and that's really hard on the rollers. That's not much spring pressure for a solid roller when you consider a good hydraulic roller will have 150-160 lbs. on the seat and live for 10's of thousands of miles. So with similar pressures it would seem it's the beating that the rollers take that do the damage over time. I think Steve settled on 220 seat pressure this go around, which doesn't sound like a ton for a solid roller, so fingers crossed he has more success. It's a game of roll the dice. Either run a tame solid roller and give up some power for mild spring pressures and see how long that lasts, or creep up the spring pressures for more aggressive cams and hope for the best. It really comes down to....... do you want to drive the car a lot and race a little? Or are you really worried about HP and ET's? I've gotten to the point that if I want a solid cam, it's a solid flat tappet. No rollers to worry about and they run for 100,000 miles. If I'm dead set on a roller, I just go hydraulic, give up a little HP with the juice lifters and move on to other things. |
#19
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endurex
endurex are not bushed. I prefer the needle bearings over bushings for street application. Bushings are great but due have some limitations as discussed in another post. I am also a fan of the comp street roller cam profiles make great power with minimal valve spring pressures and great life on all components involved.
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#20
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Cliff, Crower certainly did not suggest for a bushed type lifter the spring pressure was too intense. Isky’s ads for their “bushing type” EZ-Roll solid roller lifters say they provide 350% higher load rating than comparable needle type solid roller lifters. Those Crower bushed units should be similar. That said, I agree the intensity of the cam in use could of been a contributing factor. With this last failure I changed to a cam with the same .050 duration, but with a bit less 0.200 duration and lobe lift.
. .
__________________
'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 ) Old information here: http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/ Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine) 5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE Last edited by Steve C.; 01-09-2021 at 10:31 AM. |
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