[Formulajones]

Agree, I've always been cautious of valve train weight and spend money where I can to cut weight, even when doing hydraulic rollers and flat tappets. Especially on Pontiacs and BBC's.

[Murf]

OK, so how far can you go lightening valve train on a real street engine before you hit the point of diminishing returns?

Bee hive springs? Anything lighter than Ferrea replacement valves?

How far would you go on a street car?

Thanks
Murf


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Steve C.]

Example a Dual Conical design spring. I recently read about testing on a engine with a very aggressive solid roller cam that had 266 degrees intake duration and a net 0.780-inch valve lift, and using larger 2.190-inch stainless steel intake valves.
The engine ran very well during tests and made a best of 750 hp at 6,700 rpm. Best of all, they did not see any sign of valve float or other valve train issues during the two days of testing.
These dual conical springs had a seat load of 205 lbs at an installed height of 1.975 inches.

And NO, I'm not suggesting this was a street engine ! Only a spring example.

[ponjohn]

It is interesting that one of in not the biggest contributors to lifter failures is a two step or a rev limiter.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by Murf

OK, so how far can you go lightening valve train on a real street engine before you hit the point of diminishing returns?

Bee hive springs? Anything lighter than Ferrea replacement valves?

How far would you go on a street car?

Thanks
Murf


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Ferrea valves are heavy, they're just a strong replacement valve, not a light weight option imo. Gotta open up the check book some for light stuff

[Steve C.]

And for those who are fortunate enough with ability to do so and choose to 'open the check book' DOES NOT mean it's not a 'real' street engine


.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

And for those who are fortunate enough with ability to do so and choose to 'open the check book' DOES NOT mean it's not a 'real' street engine


.

Nope if you have nice thoughtout parts that compliment the build goals, that's an all out race engine there

[68WarDog]

Crower recommends their needle bearings for " continued " street duty. So will be sending in for a refresh.

[Steve C.]

Regarding the Crower High Pressure Pin Oiling (HIPPO).

Talk to the Crower Rep regarding a extra hole for additional high pressure pin oiling, one on each side of the bearing axle. When I had my Crower solid roller lifters rebuilt for a small extra charge they added the second hole.


.

[Formulas]

When I read all through this my mind goes also to oil pressure at idle and low rpms ( street duty )

If we had a higher volume oil pump that could provide more low rpm pressure as in sitting at a stop light or staging lanes I don't see how it could do anything but help a bunch of overstressed roller bearings

[Steve C.]

The Luhn Performance oil pump has a 84% increase in area for flow through the pickup tube. The large inlet pump and pickup system has been designed to increase the feed of the output of the longer 1.5" gear set.

In short, taller gear set from a BBC high volume pump which at 6000 engine rpm flows 19.13 gal/min. The diameter increased to 0.813", a standard Pontiac Melling pump I believe is 0.585". And the pick up was a modified unit from a late model Mustang Cobra, it's no longer available so he now makes his own.


Also he can adjust the pickup tube length to accommodate most stock and aftermarket oil pan depths.


http://www.luhnperformance.com/pontiac.html


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[Formulajones]

Agree, I too think there is something to be said about having good low idle low rpm oil pressure.

I've seen a lot of threads where 10-15 or even 20 lbs. at idle seems to satisfy some. To me it's a sign of potential issues.

[Formulajones]

Steve, of interest,

I went back to the receipts to see which Crower solid roller lifter dad was running. I was incorrect, he had the pin oiling solid roller with needle bearings that cost $630 at the time, part number 66294H, not the bushed version that is priced around $1000.

So for those that are told the needle bearings are the way to go on the street, I'd still proceed with caution. That's not the cure all.

[Steve C.]

They are listed here on page 6

https://www.crower.com/media/pdf/RollerLifterGuide.pdf

Note the pushrod seat height is different than the standard Crower 66260 Pontiac solid roller lifter and they are also slightly lighter in weight.

.

[David Jones]

I’ve run the Crower 66260H with 68405 springs on my 230/236 Comp hyd roller cam for 7 years and around 6000 miles. Seems happy.

[AG]

Originally Posted by David Jones

I’ve run the Crower 66260H with 68405 springs on my 230/236 Comp hyd roller cam for 7 years and around 6000 miles. Seems happy.

What do you use for seat pressure?

[Formulajones]

Yeah that's basically a spring meant for hydraulic cams. Even if installed down to a 1.6 height which is typical on a Pontiac, those springs only supply about 140 lbs. on the seat.
If you're using a 1.7 height they rate those springs around 110 lbs. seat pressure, that's flat tappet pressures.

At those rates, any roller you use would last 100,000 miles. In fact with a solid on a hydraulic roller cam I'd be more concerned with controlling the valve train properly with such light spring pressures.

[David Jones]

1.58” IIRC.

[Steve C.]

Crower 68405

146 lbs at 1.600" installed height ( 165 @ 1.550 )

Those are the rated pressures according to the chart.
To be precise one would have to test them at the actual verified installed height as delivered.
Never trust catalog stated pressures, they can and do vary.
In addition valve springs typically lose pressure with initial run in and over time with use.

http://www.crower.com/media/pdf/2008b/166-180.pdf

.

[Cliff R]

I ran my first 455 with a HR cam in it for quite a few years topped with 68405 springs. They came stock on the KRE heads I was using set at 1.700". I shoved a .030" shim under them and good to go. I had actually purchased a replacement set when we had the engine out to freshen it up but they springs checked fine so I just snugged them up a tad and continued using them.

I'd also note here that they don't check the same as the info posted on the Crower website for them. That's pretty much a true statement for any springs you purchase. NEVER trust the supplied specs and just throw them in and think you're good to go. I always put them in a vise with the retainers I'm using and check the "stack" height, then in the spring tester for seat and open pressures. I can't ever remember a set of springs from anyone that showed me the same pressures as the literature supplied with them.......Cliff