[Scott65]

Adding timing for ethanol content cures any "burn" issues. I use about 18-20% more fuel at ~ E50(avg.). Super unleaded is at least 20% more expensive right now. It's generally accepted that at E50 your gonna have most of the knock resistance already.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Scott65

Adding timing for ethanol content cures any "burn" issues. I use about 18-20% more fuel at ~ E50(avg.). Super unleaded is at least 20% more expensive right now. It's generally accepted that at E50 your gonna have most of the knock resistance already.

You have E85 available to you in Texas??

[Scott65]

Yes. Most all the Sunoco stations have it in my area. (Greater Houston) It of course varies some, especially in Winter. But I'm cheating and using a content sensor like the new cars. Makes things pretty automatic as far as compensating for different ethanol blends.(fueling, and the additional timing I spoke of earlier)

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Scott65

Yes. Most all the Sunoco stations have it in my area. (Greater Houston) It of course varies some, especially in Winter. But I'm cheating and using a content sensor like the new cars. Makes things pretty automatic as far as compensating for different ethanol blends.

That's a great setup. If I were going to do it, I'd definitely do the flex fuel sensor deal, that's the only way to fly on this stuff because the percentages vary too much at the pumps.

Didn't know you have Sunoco stations in Texas. I sure miss Sunoco back East. Those are non existent in Arizona. In fact E85 is about impossible to find anywhere out here.. I can google a handful of stations that pop up with an E85 search but there are a couple of problems with that. One is the few stations that pop up are mainly centralized along the I-17 corridor so you can't stray too far from that, meaning more than 100 miles in any direction is out of the question (I'm 30 miles from I-17 to start with). The second problem is when I visit those stations there is no E85 to be found.

It's been nearly 2 decades now since they really started pushing that stuff and it's still not readily available everywhere. Especially the further away you get from the corn belt. For that to really be a viable option for us, it would have to be available at every station state wide and even country wide considering all the driving we do.

[Scott65]

Yeah, I certainly don't rely on it, but it's a nice option. If I was boosted, for a street car I'd consider it more of a necessity I think.

[78w72]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

Mikes Reply:

Living in south Florida on a cool night in the winter the 1967 428 HO loves the higher 93 octane with 10 % Alcohol but the next day it is 90 degrees and the Alcohol takes affect and starts vapor lock issues. Then I have to go to the Rec- 89-90 fuel, less Alcohol.

your engine vapor locks at 90f?? even with all the cooling mods, phenolics & heat wrap? if so, something somewhere is not right...

[Scott65]

Originally Posted by 78w72

your engine vapor locks at 90f?? even with all the cooling mods, phenolics & heat wrap? if so, something somewhere is not right...

Please don't provoke the thread killer

[Nobuddy]

Originally Posted by GoreMaker

There's farm subsidies for growing corn that gets used for ethanol. From research over the years, ethanol corn wouldn't be profitable to grow without those subsidies. So because of those subsidies (which are entirely funded through taxes) farmers grow that instead of actual food.

But that's neither here nor there. That's a completely different discussion.

It is a different discussion so probably best you not add more misinformation based on popular legend.

There are no subsidies to farmers for growing corn for ethanol. Virtually all US farmers receive some federal subsidies for almost every crop grown. But there is no difference in subsidies a farmer gets selling their corn for food compared to selling to an ethanol plant. The additional demand from the sustainable fuel mandates certainly raises the total demand and the commodity price for corn.

Full disclosure, I am a farmer although no corn.

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by GoreMaker

There's farm subsidies for growing corn that gets used for ethanol. From research over the years, ethanol corn wouldn't be profitable to grow without those subsidies. So because of those subsidies (which are entirely funded through taxes) farmers grow that instead of actual food.

But that's neither here nor there. That's a completely different discussion.

As far as E85 giving worse mileage, that's entirely true. If you're injecting 35 to 50% more fuel, then you'll get 35 to 50% worse mileage. In the turbo V6 community, we usually do it for racing purposes, then we switch back to regular fuel for street driving. Basically the same way some people will run AVgas for a day of drag racing

EXACTLY ! I should have said Corn subsidies, which IS ethanol.

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by Nobuddy

It is a different discussion so probably best you not add more misinformation based on popular legend.

There are no subsidies to farmers for growing corn for ethanol. Virtually all US farmers receive some federal subsidies for almost every crop grown. But there is no difference in subsidies a farmer gets selling their corn for food compared to selling to an ethanol plant. The additional demand from the sustainable fuel mandates certainly raises the total demand and the commodity price for corn.

Full disclosure, I am a farmer although no corn.

I have relatives that grow Corn Exclusively. Yes, in fact they Do get Federal subsidies to grow corn. This covers a few things which could be used for other types of farming, but It IS in fact Subsidized. 100% of this corn is sold to Ethanol plants. Subsidies make it worth Farming. I suspect they will go up as the cost if Nitrogen does.

[Nobuddy]

Yes, corn farming is subsidized. Like all farming. But nothing links those federal subsidies to selling their corn to an ethanol plant. Your relatives probably have contracts to deliver corn directly to an ethanol plant rather than just selling it on the commodity markets. That has no effect on their subsidy.

Everyone can believe what they want, I just wanted to correct some common falsehoods.

[Jay S]

There is a .45 cent per one gallon tax credit for fuel blenders to blend ethanol with gasoline. There are no direct subsidies to farmer’s to grow corn for ethanol any more than there is to grow anything else. The reason corn gets planted and used for ethanol is do to the demand from the RFS.
Here a list of all the specific federal energy subsidies.
https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/laws/ETH?state=US

Run what ever fuel your car likes. I have never seen a disadvantage to running 93 octane over 91 octane. If it is with in the budget, and can buy it local, i definitely suggest using 93. Should be no problem dropping back 91 if need be for part throttle cruising until you can get back to your local 93. IMHO. 93 straight gasoline is a better fuel than any of the lower octane fuel no matter what the mix. Especially for guys who’s car sits more than it gets driven.

[GoreMaker]

I've noticed that a lot of areas don't have anything higher available than 91, which is why I'm hesitant to ever tune for 93+. I typically push 91 as far as I can, but then run 93 whenever it's available

[Jay S]

Pretty much the same in my area. 45 miles to a 93 pump. To far.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by Nobuddy

Yes, corn farming is subsidized. Like all farming. But nothing links those federal subsidies to selling their corn to an ethanol plant. Your relatives probably have contracts to deliver corn directly to an ethanol plant rather than just selling it on the commodity markets. That has no effect on their subsidy.

Everyone can believe what they want, I just wanted to correct some common falsehoods.

Talked to a farmer friend back in April. He told me he receives zero subsidies on any crop he raises other than corn. As a matter of fact, he and several other farmers I know changed over from growing corn this season to soybeans. Commodity prices on corn weren’t enough to pay for the fuel and fertilizer.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by Jay S

Pretty much the same in my area. 45 miles to a 93 pump. To far.

Plenty of 93 around here; it just requires an arm, a leg and your first born child to fill up.

[Jay S]

I see the OP’s options were 91 no ethanol and 93 w/ethanol. I was thinking just the opposite. In that case, I would not move up to 93 unless it was required.

We don’t get to choose the blend of 91 here at my small towns. Usually if a town has 3 stations, only one station will carry 91, and most often it is a ethanol blend. 93 is becoming further and further away. I just looked and the station that had it closest to me (45 miles) is now dropped to 91. I don’t even know where I would go for 93 now.

[Formulas]

Sunoco near me has 87 89 93 10%eth blend then 90 straight no eth.

and of course race fuel 5gal cans

a sunoco about 15 miles away has race gas at the pump at least its labeled as such never tried to pump any

a while back i was running the more expensive 90 no eth. in my jeep grand but now i run 87 to be frugal lost a mile or 2 mpgs

[Formulajones]

Nothing but 91 here in Arizona state wide. Same pee water California uses, and it's all blended 10%. So that's all we run here.

There is only one station I've found in the entire town on PV and Prescott that carries non ethanol fuel, and it's only 87 octane so not something I even consider.

Every time a new station is built there is always talk among locals of how it's going to have race fuel or non ethanol that is higher octane, or even a 100 octane unleaded pump, but every time a station is finished, it just has the same old crap all the other stations have.

There is a station next to the only dragstrip left in Phoenix (until next spring) that sells race gas. 110 octane at the pump, but it's $10 a gallon and that station is over 100 miles away LOL Interestingly they do not sell any E85 there that I've seen.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

My car has been off the road due to a damaged Trans., that I plan on taking apart this weekend, so the money I don't have to buy gas with at $5.00 /gal is going to buy the hard parts in the trans. that failed.