[SD455DJ]

It seems the PMD parts catalog lists the '69 23569 Custom S 4-dr Sedan at 3235 lbs dry, so add:
122 lbs for 20 gal. of gas
25 lbs. for coolant
245 lbs. for the 350 4-bbl V8
43 lbs. for the M40 automatic trans.
29 lbs. for dual exhaust
31lbs. for power steering
9 lbs. for power brakes (drum)
8 bls. for radio & antenna
3747 lbs. total curb weight as equipped

Definitely in the ballpark of a comparably equipped GTO.

Dennis

[north]

Looking in my sales manual the Custom S 4dr sedan has a curb (includes full tank of fuel and other fluids) weight of 3391 which matches your dry weight.

[SD455DJ]

Dan & I got the little 350HO engine running today with the factory induction system. It ran so well and I'm sure the gas mileage doubled over the dual quad set up. We gave it a short 5 mile test drive before calling it a day. The factory choke works like it should and it doesn't burn any oil as the AF ratio is much leaner than with the dual quads. The q-jet has 73 primary jets with 43 metering rods with BE (.041 tips) secondary metering rods.

Here's the pics from today with the wrong '71 B-body 4-bbl air cleaner with a chrome lid for now, until I find the correct long single snorkel unit. We have the correct heat riser tin to install on the driver exhaust yet. The factory distributor is only allowing 20 degrees of mechanical advance for a total of 29 degrees at 4100 rpm with the factory heavy advance springs when set at 9 degrees initial. The original rubber stop bushing is really holding it back, but still drives great.

Dennis

[b-man]

That’s great, back to stock as it should be.

Those ‘69 350 HOs were such an underrated engine.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Heck its an HO car
if you have a spare dual snorkel laying around ...... well.

[Shiny]

That's amazing progress and sounds like a happy drive.

I'm curious - what fuel pump is on it? Short or tall can?

Thanks for sharing the carb setup.

[Kenth]

Originally Posted by north

I looked up the axle ratio data and some factory documents say 3.23 with auto trans (with and without AC) but most say 3.55 (also with and without AC), given that the ones that said 3.23 were early and/or preproduction. So, either they were all 3.55 or they switched from 3.23 to 3.55 early in the model run. For what it's worth there are some good reasons to doubt the accuracy of these charts because some say there was a 3.08 and 3.36 offered for special order with automatic trans and others say there were no optional ratios. another shows 3.55 as standard with or without AC but also shows a special order 3.55 that can't be ordered with AC ?!?

Regardless this was a stout car. I suspect that without AC and the 3.55 it might have embarrassed many a GTO with AC and 3.23's.

Info from the 1969 Service Manual and from the 1969 AMA specs.

[SD455DJ]

Originally Posted by b-man

That’s great, back to stock as it should be.

Those ‘69 350 HOs were such an underrated engine.

This spring we'll recurve the dizzy for 36 total in by 3500 rpm and swap the 20 degree vacuum advance unit for a 10 degree one. We'll see how the plugs look after a some more driving time and fine tune the jetting if needed. We also want to check the cam's condition and zero lash the lifters to make sure it can rev to 5200 rpm (only after we gain more confidence in the engine). It is definitely peppy with the 3.55's and the TH400 shifts crisply. We'll also add the Pypes 2.5" headpipes to current 2 1/4" exhaust system and swap the mufflers for 2 1/4" in/out Ultraflows or Magnaflows...which should be more than enough flow for the 350.

Dennis

[SD455DJ]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Heck its an HO car
if you have a spare dual snorkel laying around ...... well.

I can swap the dual snorkel that I have on the '71 Bonneville. The stubby single snorkel came off the Bonnie anyway, so it can always go back on. Out of the 55 4-dr sedans and 30 4-dr hardtops, I wonder if any others have survived. I know I've never seen another one...plenty of the 2-dr versions certainly.

Dennis

[SD455DJ]

Originally Posted by Shiny

That's amazing progress and sounds like a happy drive.

I'm curious - what fuel pump is on it? Short or tall can?

Thanks for sharing the carb setup.

Shiny, It has the small canister pump and it's an AC pump to boot...not sure if it is the original, or a replacement from a while ago.

Dennis

[SD455DJ]

Originally Posted by Kenth

Info from the 1969 Service Manual and from the 1969 AMA specs.

Thanks Kenth! It seems most of the literature printed show the 3.55's a the standard gear regardless of tranny type, with & without A/C.

Dennis

[SD455DJ]

Originally Posted by north

Looking in my sales manual the Custom S 4dr sedan has a curb (includes full tank of fuel and other fluids) weight of 3391 which matches your dry weight.

X2!

[SD455DJ]

Originally Posted by JSuchma

Just wondering if it might have the Pure Stock Drags in it's future?

If we have confidence in the engine, I'd love to see what it can do.

Dennis

[Shiny]

Originally Posted by SD455DJ

Shiny, It has the small canister pump and it's an AC pump to boot...not sure if it is the original, or a replacement from a while ago.

Dennis

Thanks Dennis

And by AC, you mean 3 lines (a return to tank)? I wasn't sure that was new in 70 or not..

And just curious, assuming the original compression and cam, will this run on pump gas?

Mike

[SD455DJ]

Originally Posted by Shiny

Thanks Dennis

And by AC, you mean 3 lines (a return to tank)? I wasn't sure that was new in 70 or not..

And just curious, assuming the original compression and cam, will this run on pump gas?

Mike

Mike, Sorry, AC Delco pump with the return line to the tank (1/4"). We are going to check the compression next week sometime with the Whistler. I believe Dan said he got static compression ratio measurements of 9.6 cold/10.0 hot on his '69 Firebird's 350HO, which is still standard bore with minimally cut heads. We're suspecting the same numbers from this engine. We drove the 40 miles back on whatever was in the tank (guessing 93 octane), but it didn't ever knock/ping since it was only 35 degrees outside and the timing advance is really slow. I hope it can run on 93 pump fuel.

Dennis

[north]

The fuel pump deal in 69 was that any V8 that had AC and/or a 4 bbl carb used the bigger fuel line and had a return line. All sixes and 2bbl V8's without AC used a smaller main line without a return. Neither 69 pump had the big tank on the pump. That started in 1970.

[SD455DJ]

North, So, 3/8" line from the tank to the pump to the carb. We didn't look to verify the delivery side line size, but was just assuming it was 3/8"...now you got me wondering...definitely has the "no-cannister" fuel pump. Thanks for sharing your knowledge on the '69's...I am learning a lot!

Dennis

[north]

Yeah, the main line was 5/16” on the setups without return and 3/8” on the setups with return.

[Shiny]

Yes, thank you both for sharing your knowledge.

And I like that Pontiac thought the small-can pump would support the 350 HO.

Interesting to me, though, is that the tall canister pump wasn't introduced until 1970, maybe for the 455? Anyway, suggests the small can pump was capable for even the HP 400s in 1969.

Mike

[SD455DJ]

I'm learning about all the subtle nuances between the '69 & '70 model years. I guess they were all transitional in many little ways from year to year.

Dennis