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Old 02-27-2024, 06:45 PM
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bill ryder bill ryder is offline
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Default Questions about 65 options

Not being nearly as versed on 65, I have a couple questions as what triggers what options. I am speaking of unmolested car, right off the showroom floor. No day 2 mods.

If you raised the hood and saw a notched fan, would that indicate a 3:90 rear end?
If yes, would that also indicate aluminum drums?
Would that also indicate, possibly, an M21 transmission, or can that be ordered either way: M20 or M21?

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"Bill"!

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Old 02-27-2024, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill ryder View Post
Not being nearly as versed on 65, I have a couple questions as what triggers what options. I am speaking of unmolested car, right off the showroom floor. No day 2 mods.

If you raised the hood and saw a notched fan, would that indicate a 3:90 rear end?
If yes, would that also indicate aluminum drums?
Would that also indicate, possibly, an M21 transmission, or can that be ordered either way: M20 or M21?

THANKS!!!!!
"Bill"!
Hi Bill,

On a 1965 Tempest Series car (GTO) in this case.
The large diameter HD notched fan indicates a high performance 3.90 rear.
This notched fan also came on all Tempest Series cars with air condition.
Above applications comes with or without Power Steering and the large (4 core) radiator.

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Old 02-27-2024, 08:35 PM
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Notched fans came on A/C cars, so not necessarily. 3:90= M-21 As far as the drums, looking at the order sheet it appears to be a stand alone option, but the metallic brake linings look to be mandatory.
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Old 02-28-2024, 12:15 AM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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In 64 & 65 you could get the 3.90 with M20 or M21
M21 was default for 3.90
M20 was special equipment and will show a different code on the BHC

The only difference between the W code M20 and the Spec Eqpt M20 was the speedo gear.
I only know of about three 65 3.90 cars documented that way.

Could get 3.90 with Auto , also.

The fan has been covered pretty well already.
So if you open the hoods on Day 1 cars , and saw the notched fan ,
but not a tall radiator (trough in lower support) and no metal fan shroud
You would be looking at a 3.90 car - or a factory mistake.

The notched blade fan is the larger fan normally only used on AC cars.

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Old 02-28-2024, 01:01 AM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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The glossary terms in Cardo's chart show for 3.90
@ = Code 534 HD Fan = Big blade notched fan
$ = Code 591 Speedo Adapter - this is an error , it was only used on Automatics

3x2 brought Code 432 HD Radiator with it

Another error is showing 2 codes for M21
One of those codes is actually for the M20 Spec Eqpt with different speedo gear

Can't access my files for a while now.
But my WS M20 3.90 BHC is on this site.
And Seymores WS M21 3.90 actual Buildsheet is on this site.
Our cars have different transmission codes

Will try to find those documents on here and put them in this thread - if I can.
Tarheel Tempest car is also WS M20 3.90 , and I think one other member also.
All 3 named cars are from PMD Michigan Plant

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Old 02-28-2024, 03:06 AM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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I tangled the terms on the 4 speed terms I used.
We know the Code 77W was the standard M20 up to 3.55 gears

According to John V. - the Code 779 M20 with special speedo gear was the default with 3.90
And Code 778 was the Spec Eqpt M21 Close Ratio with 3.90

Majority of 65 3.90 cars were ordered with the M21
Seymore's car is #778 with M21
Mine is #779 with M20
Tarheels is #779 with M20

The powetrain charts that PHS sends out were done themselves
Some errors on the 65 chart they made.

None of the 3 cars listed above have the #591 Speedo Adapter.
All 3 have Code #534 HD Fan = $3.12 option
Actually they all 3 show #535 because all 3 also had Option 531 SoftRay ALL as well

The 4th car is a WS M20 3.55 for cross reference
All 4 are Black.

Seymore's 65 M21 3.90




Tarheel's 65 M20 3.90



My 65 M20 3.90



Random 65 M20 3.55

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Old 02-28-2024, 03:15 AM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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Notice that Seymore's car also carries Code 592 for the Spec Eqpt Trans M21
592 = Special Order on his Buildsheet

534 = Special Blade Fan on his Buildsheet

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Old 02-28-2024, 08:30 AM
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I don't think it will answer your questions specifically, but there's an accessories catalog on the Old Car Manual Project website that you might find useful. https://oldcarbrochures.org/United%2...iac/index.html

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Old 02-28-2024, 08:59 AM
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I see my work here is done...


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Old 02-28-2024, 11:45 AM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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Sometimes I don't know what I would do without a copy of your 65 Buildsheet , Keith.
lol

All the M21 cars I have seen documents on have the 592 Spec Eqpt / Special Order code.
fwiw

Also worth noting that all 3 of the 3.90 cars shown , were Manual Steering.
So the fan quiz should have a definitive answer.
It was for 3.90

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Old 02-28-2024, 12:14 PM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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The 4th car shown - WS M20 3.55 - Did have Pwr Steering
But no special fan

All 4 are Black , and from PMD Michigan plant.
Apples to Apples

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Old 02-28-2024, 06:11 PM
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Sooo, here we go.

"Bill"!
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Old 03-15-2024, 07:39 PM
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Yeah Bill! What's the deal?!

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