#1  
Old 08-15-2019, 08:47 AM
PontiacMatt72's Avatar
PontiacMatt72 PontiacMatt72 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lawrenceburg, Kentucky
Posts: 1,277
Default Pontiac engine swapped into modern GM truck

Toying with the idea of swapping a Pontiac engine into a early or mid 2000’s GMC or Chevy 3/4 ton pickup. Anyone familiar with anyone else that’s tried this?

Want to use the trucks original trans (auto), and everything else. Just want to swap out the “LS” style engine with a Pontiac.

Thoughts on the engine would be a mild fuel-injected 400 build, possibly add a small turbo. Purpose of the truck would be a reliable daily driver capable of occasionally towing ~10k lbs.

__________________
Matt
70 GTO 400 4-speed

"Turbos make no noise and leave the line like Baby Diarrhea!" - GTOGeorge
  #2  
Old 08-15-2019, 06:15 PM
Radman's Avatar
Radman Radman is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Tippecanoe, OH
Posts: 765
Default

If you keep the truck transmission and it is an automatic, you will probably need some type of computer adaptor to get it to shift properly.

__________________
If you built it, drive it.
red 62 Tempest total stock restoration.
white 62 Tempest modified, 61 389 Tri-Power, and a conventional drive train.
  #3  
Old 08-15-2019, 06:43 PM
PontiacMatt72's Avatar
PontiacMatt72 PontiacMatt72 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lawrenceburg, Kentucky
Posts: 1,277
Default

4L80 I assume... no one using those with old school engines?

Something I hadn’t thought of though, thanks for the heads up.

__________________
Matt
70 GTO 400 4-speed

"Turbos make no noise and leave the line like Baby Diarrhea!" - GTOGeorge
  #4  
Old 08-15-2019, 07:03 PM
phil400's Avatar
phil400 phil400 is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 319
Default

Before HPP closed its doors I remember reading an article about a 4L80 swap into I think a 74 T/A...might have been a 4L60, there are stand alone systems to use.. In the article they even flog it on th dyno. You just have program your shift points.

Sorry Can't be more help, I know I've got the issue at home, but away with the family on vacation, climbed MT Washington today in New Hampshire. Awesome here, want to come with my t/a to hit these twisty 2 lane black tops.

__________________
78 T/A 4SPEED, Original paint, match #’s, mine since ‘99.
77 t/a sold
85 Monte Carlo SS sold
83 Mustang GT sold
  #5  
Old 08-15-2019, 07:07 PM
Tom Vaught's Avatar
Tom Vaught Tom Vaught is offline
Boost Engineer
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The United States of America
Posts: 31,294
Default

I believe Mark Schottler, Glenn Schottler's (RIP Glenn) son has done a couple of 455 Pontiac Engines in Chevy vehicles. I rode in one of them for several hours on the way to western Kansas to do some Pheasant Hunting one time.

Mark had his set up with a "Switch Pitch" converter as he was a very good Turbo 400 Trans guy among his other skills.
So it has been at least 15 years since I rode in that truck. Maybe 2001 or 2003 timeframe.

Tom V.

__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught

Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward.
  #6  
Old 08-15-2019, 09:12 PM
HoneyHush HoneyHush is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Florence,Ky.
Posts: 246
Default

Hey Matt how have you been? My friend has a 98 extended cab Chevy half ton he built for his “tow” vehicle. He built a 496bbc with hydraulic roller and AFR heads with a Fitech on it and uses the truck’s original 4l80 built of course with a stand alone tranny controller. Jeggs and Summit have a variety. I’ll ask him which one he bought, I can’t remember, but the truck has an nos kit on it too and at over 5000 lbs and no traction on a 150 shot he’s gone 11.0 at 138. It’s really just as easy as bolting it in. We used hooker super comp headers for a Chevy SS truck and made 3 1/2” mandrel exhaust with magnaflows. Come up to Florence and check it out and go for another ride lol

  #7  
Old 08-15-2019, 09:22 PM
Slick Poncho Slick Poncho is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 68
Default

I am running a 4l80e behind my 505 in my lemans. I am using the msd atomic controller. It’s a pretty fresh drivetrain as I only had three passes and 15-20 street miles before Norwalk. All this being said so far I am very happy with the way it all works. I have also considered building a poncho with a Fitch or sniper efi to install in my Crew cab k2500 tow vehicle to replace the 350. Probably would be easier to just install one of the vortec 454’s I have for it but maybe I’ll get the extra itch one day.

  #8  
Old 08-15-2019, 09:22 PM
HoneyHush HoneyHush is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Florence,Ky.
Posts: 246
Default

https://youtu.be/XZGvUWVqqAc

  #9  
Old 08-15-2019, 09:24 PM
HoneyHush HoneyHush is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Florence,Ky.
Posts: 246
Default

https://youtu.be/0HrkF8KDNzc

  #10  
Old 08-15-2019, 10:20 PM
Sirrotica's Avatar
Sirrotica Sirrotica is online now
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Catawba Ohio
Posts: 7,193
Default

Probably the best value for a 4l80E standalone controller is the Bauman/USShift unit:

https://www.usshift.com/index.shtml

You just need the $50 adapter to bolt the 4L80E to the Pontiac engine. Setup the Fitech unit and you're most of the way there. Not sure about motor mounts, you'll probably going to figure out when you set the engine into the chassis. I've done 4 Pontiac swaps into Wagoneers and Jeep trucks and had to fab my own mounts for the engine. You might fare better because everything you're bolting together is all GM stuff. Usually GM parts are designed along certain parameters so things can be used with minor adjustments and can be used from division to division.

If it's a 4 X 4 (I looked to see if you mentioned if it was or not, and didn't see any reference) the left exhaust might be a little challenging because of the left driveshaft and transfer case. I own a 93 K3500 dually 6.5 turbo diesel, and the left side is pretty crowded with the front differential and driveshaft there. The frames are pretty similar with the IFS front axle after 1988.

__________________
Brad Yost
1973 T/A (SOLD)
2005 GTO
1984 Grand Prix

100% Pontiacs in my driveway!!! What's in your driveway?

If you don't take some of the RACETRACK home with you, Ya got cheated

  #11  
Old 08-16-2019, 08:35 AM
HWYSTR455's Avatar
HWYSTR455 HWYSTR455 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Manassas, VA
Posts: 14,658
Default

The USShift is the best, Quick2 is like $450. The MSD and TCI are good products, but are a touch more money.

Not sure if any include the TPS, but easy enough to check. They all have acceptable TPS kits.

True too on the transfer case and engine mounts, but know others have done it without too much effort.


.

__________________
.

1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624
1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger
Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be
  #12  
Old 08-16-2019, 01:00 PM
PontiacMatt72's Avatar
PontiacMatt72 PontiacMatt72 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lawrenceburg, Kentucky
Posts: 1,277
Default

Awesome, thanks guys.

The truck I would like to build would be a 2001-2007 Chevy or GMC 3/4 ton (2500HD) Crew cab short bed 4x4 gas (6.0) truck. Not really looking for a drag truck, just something reliable. The idea of maybe adding a turbo would be for just a touch extra power for towing purposes.

The factory 6.0 engines that came in these trucks range from ~300hp/360 lb. ft, on up to about 360hp/375 lb. ft.

Any respectable Mild Pontiac build can create those numbers, and without too much effort exceed them. Even without a turbo. But I’ve used a few diesel trucks and that turbo sure makes a world of difference. Can’t imagine that it wouldn’t help considerably with a gas engine also.

I just wonder how reliable such an engine would be. You think, considering the intended purpose, the turbo would be better left out of the equation?

__________________
Matt
70 GTO 400 4-speed

"Turbos make no noise and leave the line like Baby Diarrhea!" - GTOGeorge
  #13  
Old 08-16-2019, 01:27 PM
Tom Vaught's Avatar
Tom Vaught Tom Vaught is offline
Boost Engineer
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The United States of America
Posts: 31,294
Default

At 10 psi of boost pressure the Turbo system would easily add 50% more power vs the NA Pontiac Engine and could make 700+ hp at a very mild 5200- 5400 rpm.

Luhn Performance made 863 Hp at 13 psi and 5300 rpm on a 455 type engine years ago.
No worries on a engine making 700 HP at around 10 psi. The Luhn Perf engine had a belt driven supercharger that consumed about 83 HP. With a Turbo his number would have been 940 HP at 13 psi.

Tom V.

That engine was run on Steve Morris Engine Dyno. The engine was inter-cooled.

__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught

Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward.
  #14  
Old 08-16-2019, 01:46 PM
HWYSTR455's Avatar
HWYSTR455 HWYSTR455 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Manassas, VA
Posts: 14,658
Default

If you don't already have an engine, I would think a BBC would be a good choice. A stroked 454, 502, or 572 would work great, and if you crate one, can get a warranty even.

If you want reliability, the simpler the better, pass on any power adders.

The more you use that has been originally offered for the platform being used the better. Simplifies servicing and parts sourcing.

.

__________________
.

1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624
1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger
Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be
  #15  
Old 08-16-2019, 03:10 PM
PontiacMatt72's Avatar
PontiacMatt72 PontiacMatt72 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lawrenceburg, Kentucky
Posts: 1,277
Default

Nah, rather try the Pontiac route. Got a couple blocks and cranks kicking around, always thought a Pontiac engine would make a great truck engine (torque).

As for the newer style truck, I like the idea of already having the modern drivetrain (trans, transfer case)and suspension, a/c, power windows, air bags (safety features - starting a family), modern creature comforts not necessarily as easy to obtain in an older pickup.

Don’t have the truck yet, kicked this idea around for several years and am giving it more serious thought. Been looking for a suitable candidate.

__________________
Matt
70 GTO 400 4-speed

"Turbos make no noise and leave the line like Baby Diarrhea!" - GTOGeorge
  #16  
Old 08-16-2019, 03:22 PM
track73 track73 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Munster In
Posts: 1,504
Default

25 years ago the Ford 240 6 cylinder gave up the ghost so being sponsored by a Junk yard, they sold me a 455 out of a 73 Grand Am with the Turbo 400 for $250. It was beast for towing. The 4,56 Dana was a little steep so I put on taller rear tires to tame it down a bit.. The gas mileage sucked but it towed great.

__________________
1979 Trans Am WS-6 .030 455 zero decked
flat pistons
96 heads with SS valves
041 cam with Rhoads lifters 1.65 rockers
RPM rods
800 Cliffs Q Jet on Holley Street Dominator
ST-10 4 speed (3.42 first)
w 2.73 rear gear

__________________________________________________ _______________________________

469th TFS Korat Thailand 1968-69 F-4E Muzzle 2
  #17  
Old 08-16-2019, 03:50 PM
Sirrotica's Avatar
Sirrotica Sirrotica is online now
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Catawba Ohio
Posts: 7,193
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PontiacMatt72 View Post
Nah, rather try the Pontiac route. Got a couple blocks and cranks kicking around, always thought a Pontiac engine would make a great truck engine (torque).

As for the newer style truck, I like the idea of already having the modern drivetrain (trans, transfer case)and suspension, a/c, power windows, air bags (safety features - starting a family), modern creature comforts not necessarily as easy to obtain in an older pickup.

Don’t have the truck yet, kicked this idea around for several years and am giving it more serious thought. Been looking for a suitable candidate.
Picture of my Stratostreak 455 T400 equipped 1973 Jeep 3/4 ton wrecker/snowplow, with a 4.10 axle, circa 1982, it never knew you were hauling anything. They were still using pathetic 4 wheel drum brakes 2X12 inches in 1973, disc brakes would have been great on that truck, I never got around to adapting better brakes though.

I have the LS2 in my 05 GTO and it just doesn't have nearly the amount of torque when using it to haul a trailer, car dolly etc. It also kills the mileage hauling with it. I also drove a 1 ton chevy work van with an LS2 and as long as it was empty it ran fine, loaded heavy you really knew it was working the engine. The long stroke of Pontiacs, combined with relatively small port runners work well for hauling stuff. IMO they are head and shoulders better than a BBC, having driven both.



__________________
Brad Yost
1973 T/A (SOLD)
2005 GTO
1984 Grand Prix

100% Pontiacs in my driveway!!! What's in your driveway?

If you don't take some of the RACETRACK home with you, Ya got cheated

Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:09 PM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017