#1  
Old 06-13-2019, 03:28 PM
68lemans462's Avatar
68lemans462 68lemans462 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lakewood, Colorado
Posts: 1,418
Default RARE "no drill" driveshaft loop doesnt fit

I just ordered one of these and was about 50% confident it would fit. Although it did "bolt in" after barely sneaking by my X pipe, the unit is jammed up tight against the floor boards. The result is a bunch of unwanted vibratory noise from the drivetrain to the floorboards. Guess I'll be taking this off to modify it.

Anyone else have experience with this part? Wondering if my experience is unique. I'm thinking of yanking it out, heating it up, bending it down, repainting and trying again. Nothing like taking a torch to a NEW part that's supposed to fit.

__________________
*************************************
1968 Lemans. 37,000 original miles. GTO clone. 462ci/KRE 290 heads. UltraDyne 280/288 Solid/850 Qjet by Cliff/Performer RPM/TSP 9.5" in TH400/8.5" 3.42 gears/3950# Race weight/12.58@106 at Bandimere speedway high altitude
  #2  
Old 06-13-2019, 03:47 PM
form74's Avatar
form74 form74 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Glen Ellyn, Illinois
Posts: 1,785
Default

I had to bend mine down a little bit , no heat needed to bend it , just put in a vise. I actually had my car on 4 x 4 pieces of wood so I could see how it fit when the car was on the ground to ensure it was centered around the driveshaft, mine is closer to the pass side as all F-body rearends are off a little, it took a few adjustments to get it right.

These are the only two pictures I have of it, looks like I bent it near the loop, i'm having a CRS moment and can't remember exactly, it's been a few years since I put it in.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	71E2C4B0-AFA0-4B59-87CE-0CB646A04D14.jpg
Views:	322
Size:	62.2 KB
ID:	514068   Click image for larger version

Name:	A0A22D0B-8B89-4495-B348-44CF82FD997A.jpg
Views:	280
Size:	62.2 KB
ID:	514069  

__________________
74 Formula
469, 6X-4's, 72 Intake, Ramair Manifolds.
3 inch exhaust with x-pipe
Custom Roller Cam, 1.52 Roller Rockers
Quadrajet done by Cliff
3:42 gears


12.075 @ 112.70
12.092 @ 112.43
12.128 @ 111.71


Last edited by form74; 06-13-2019 at 04:12 PM.
  #3  
Old 06-14-2019, 01:00 PM
chiphead's Avatar
chiphead chiphead is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Aiken, SC
Posts: 5,182
Default

I had the same experience in a '67 LeMans. Installed under the tranny mount, it jacked the tranny out of position AND hit the driveshaft tunnel. I took it back out. I still have it, my plan is to modify it to fit later.

__________________
I could explain all this to the girl at the parts store, but she'd probably call the asylum.

White '67 LeMans 407/TH350/Ford 3.89... RIP
Red '67 LeMans. 407/TH400/Ford 3.25
  #4  
Old 06-14-2019, 01:15 PM
Bruce Meyer's Avatar
Bruce Meyer Bruce Meyer is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Phoenix, Az
Posts: 1,385
Default

Guys, Im not trying to be a jerk but there is no way I would trust that safety loop for 1 sec in a failure. In a driveshaft failure it would likely bend out of the way and allow the driveshaft to cause havoc or come apart and be part of the shrapnel flying around. I cant believe that they are NHRA legal.

  #5  
Old 06-14-2019, 01:20 PM
chiphead's Avatar
chiphead chiphead is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Aiken, SC
Posts: 5,182
Default

That's kinda how I felt about it. Seems like it could twist the tranny off the x-member if things got ugly.

__________________
I could explain all this to the girl at the parts store, but she'd probably call the asylum.

White '67 LeMans 407/TH350/Ford 3.89... RIP
Red '67 LeMans. 407/TH400/Ford 3.25
  #6  
Old 06-14-2019, 01:43 PM
RocktimusPryme's Avatar
RocktimusPryme RocktimusPryme is online now
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Bedford, IN
Posts: 2,166
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Meyer View Post
Guys, Im not trying to be a jerk but there is no way I would trust that safety loop for 1 sec in a failure. In a driveshaft failure it would likely bend out of the way and allow the driveshaft to cause havoc or come apart and be part of the shrapnel flying around. I cant believe that they are NHRA legal.
I was thinking about buying one. Just because I don't want to have to pull all my seats out and pull the carpet up. A lot of the other common ones just go through the sheet metal in the floor boards. Is that really all that much more secure? I make no argument that some of the ones that get connected to frames or are built in conjunction with sub frames are better. Obviously they are.

But I think by the fact that it is NHRA legal Im going to trust that someone did some research before it was signed off on.

I mean just visually we all look at those little Smart Cars and say "Boy I wouldn't want to be in a wreck in that" But the reality is you would probably rather be in a collision in that, than you would a 1960 Catalina.

__________________
1967 Firebird 462 580hp/590ftlbs
1962 Pontiac Catalina Safari Swapped in Turd of an Olds 455
Owner/Creator Catfish Motorsports
https://www.youtube.com/@CatfishMotorsports
  #7  
Old 06-14-2019, 03:35 PM
Jim Moshier's Avatar
Jim Moshier Jim Moshier is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Acton, CA
Posts: 294
Default

There is a whole bunch of truth this your comment! Like they say, something is better than nothing.....I still won't ride in a smart car. ....

__________________
Jim Moshier

1971 Grand Prix 462ci SD Performance 6x heads
1962 Catalina 389
1968 Firebird 400-455 I haven't decided

"If we ever forget that we're one nation under GOD, then we will be a nation gone under." - Ronald Reagan
  #8  
Old 06-14-2019, 04:05 PM
form74's Avatar
form74 form74 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Glen Ellyn, Illinois
Posts: 1,785
Default

Most Tracks by me ask you if you have one after they ask how fat your car is. I had mine on the shelf for over 5 years , until their was a bad accident (death ) at the Byron track , i was their that day and they started to check all cars after that for all safety equipment. I put on the before I went back their again.

__________________
74 Formula
469, 6X-4's, 72 Intake, Ramair Manifolds.
3 inch exhaust with x-pipe
Custom Roller Cam, 1.52 Roller Rockers
Quadrajet done by Cliff
3:42 gears


12.075 @ 112.70
12.092 @ 112.43
12.128 @ 111.71

  #9  
Old 08-14-2019, 09:16 PM
tolerico tolerico is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: CA
Posts: 150
Default Tremec fitment and RARE driveshaft loop

Well I guess I was the first...

Ordered the bolt-on driveshaft loop that Ram Air Restoration makes (and even Butler sells) for my TREMEC trans.

Upon going to mount it, realized the Tremec TKO trans have a belly 'fin' with 2 bolt bosses on the tail housing behind the transmission mount that the loop is to mount to.

The driveshaft loop will not bolt on and clear this low hanging area.

This tail belly fin, which is there for a torque arm application, has to then be shaved for the loop to fit.

Ram Air Restoration made the loop based on fitment to a Tremec TKO trans that did NOT have the fin and bolt boss on the tail since the trans they have has the fin area completely ground away (like how a stock T-5 is) for fitment to A-body GM cars. Doh!!

If you have a crappy Tremec T-5 or a customized Tremec TKO trans with the fin removed for fitment into an a-body, you will be fine.

But I'd say 80% of Tremec TKO owners have this fin/bolt boss area and will not be able to use this mount they sell without modification.

Photo shows a stock TKO trans with the fin area with bolt bosses. That is what needs to be cut off if you plan to fit this "bolt-on" loop.

Can't believe they did not have 1 person complain who has a standard TKO trans over the years. Yay me.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Tremec_TKO600.JPG
Views:	87
Size:	38.6 KB
ID:	517799  

  #10  
Old 08-14-2019, 09:22 PM
RocktimusPryme's Avatar
RocktimusPryme RocktimusPryme is online now
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Bedford, IN
Posts: 2,166
Default

FWIW I bought one and it bolted on easily. Was also heavier duty than I expected.

I have a poly trans mount. It comes with a spacer. The spacer was about the same width as the RARE loop. So I just tossed the spacer and bolted this guy in its place.

So it seems like a one size fits a lot. But as opposed to drilling holes in your floor it’s relatively easy to try. I actually tried the basic $30 Jegs kit first, but it wouldn’t fit with my X pipe. The RARE unit was an easy bolt on in comparison.

__________________
1967 Firebird 462 580hp/590ftlbs
1962 Pontiac Catalina Safari Swapped in Turd of an Olds 455
Owner/Creator Catfish Motorsports
https://www.youtube.com/@CatfishMotorsports
  #11  
Old 08-14-2019, 09:25 PM
tolerico tolerico is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: CA
Posts: 150
Default

You bolted it to a TKO? I can't see how with the 'fin' area on the tail housing hanging lower than the trans mount holes on the tranny.

Photos?


Picture is of a T5 (similar to a modified a-body fitment TKO tail) that shows there is no belly fin on the tail housing to contend with when trying to mount it.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	T5.JPG
Views:	68
Size:	26.5 KB
ID:	517800  

  #12  
Old 08-15-2019, 05:18 AM
TCSGTO's Avatar
TCSGTO TCSGTO is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Warren,Ohio,USA
Posts: 1,675
Default

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/u...tiac/model/gto

I just got one of these. It bolts to the floor brace and tucks up so it doesn’t hang down. They make them for most popular models.
I had one of those Mike Caruso no drill loops but he quit making them. He had separate ones for T400’s and T350’s. That was a nice design that was made for the Pontiac crossmember. The RARE is on the left and the Caruso on the right. Never could get the RARE to fit right.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	4580A6FC-9336-480D-A706-43ECB092680D.jpeg
Views:	106
Size:	69.0 KB
ID:	517821  

__________________
68 GTO,3860#
Stock Original 400/M-20 Muncie,3.55’s
13.86 @ 100
Old combo:
462 10.75 CR,,SD 330CFM Round Port E's,Old Faithful cam,Jim Hand Continental,3.42's.
1968 Pontiac GTO : 11.114 @ 120.130 MPH

New combo:
517 MR-1,10.8 CR,SD 350CFM E's,QFT 950/Northwind,246/252 HR,9.5” 4000 stall,3.42's
636HP/654TQ
1.452 10.603 @ 125.09
http://www.dragtimes.com/Pontiac-GTO...lip-31594.html
  #13  
Old 08-15-2019, 06:50 AM
jamaca85 jamaca85 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: nampa id
Posts: 1,088
Default

i bought the bolt on type this time around seems like it will do the job and fits great. i had a bolt on 20.00 one on the last time and it kept the driveline in place when the rear joint froze.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	55600780_10213100648183160_8159729755436875776_o.jpg
Views:	86
Size:	86.6 KB
ID:	517822  

__________________
1970 firebird, 468, e heads,
  #14  
Old 08-15-2019, 08:02 AM
Half-Inch Stud's Avatar
Half-Inch Stud Half-Inch Stud is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: BlueBell, PA or AL U.S.A.
Posts: 18,457
Default

Same same. I had to oval the hoop & bend the divingboard. Lots of buck bang to get a result.

Hoop would oscillate at mid-track. Really cut down on my race efforts. Tried thick rubber wedges, discs heldby zipties. Now hangs on garage wall.

  #15  
Old 08-15-2019, 09:07 AM
phil400's Avatar
phil400 phil400 is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 319
Default

Ay what power level would these be necessary,or when does it start to be a good idea? I don't really race my car but beat it on the street and planning a drivetrain swap for more power.
Thanks

__________________
78 T/A 4SPEED, Original paint, match #’s, mine since ‘99.
77 t/a sold
85 Monte Carlo SS sold
83 Mustang GT sold
  #16  
Old 08-15-2019, 09:35 AM
RocktimusPryme's Avatar
RocktimusPryme RocktimusPryme is online now
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Bedford, IN
Posts: 2,166
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by phil400 View Post
Ay what power level would these be necessary,or when does it start to be a good idea? I don't really race my car but beat it on the street and planning a drivetrain swap for more power.
Thanks
I would say its always a good idea. You can save a lot of the rest of the car if something goes wrong. Not to mention the worse case scenarios where is pole vaults the car or flies out and hits someone.

Most of us get them to pass track tech though.

__________________
1967 Firebird 462 580hp/590ftlbs
1962 Pontiac Catalina Safari Swapped in Turd of an Olds 455
Owner/Creator Catfish Motorsports
https://www.youtube.com/@CatfishMotorsports
  #17  
Old 08-15-2019, 09:57 AM
form74's Avatar
form74 form74 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Glen Ellyn, Illinois
Posts: 1,785
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme View Post
I would say its always a good idea. You can save a lot of the rest of the car if something goes wrong. Not to mention the worse case scenarios where is pole vaults the car or flies out and hits someone.

Most of us get them to pass track tech though.
Mine sat on the Shelf for years , until their was a rollover a few years back at the local track, never saw the root cause posted ( they guy died and i'm sure their was a law suit), but shortly after that the Track posted the rules for each speed and anything under 14.00 needed a driveshaft loop according to some Race Rules.

I've been asked at that Track a lot if I have one , I always say it run's mid 12's if they ask.

__________________
74 Formula
469, 6X-4's, 72 Intake, Ramair Manifolds.
3 inch exhaust with x-pipe
Custom Roller Cam, 1.52 Roller Rockers
Quadrajet done by Cliff
3:42 gears


12.075 @ 112.70
12.092 @ 112.43
12.128 @ 111.71

  #18  
Old 08-15-2019, 11:04 AM
Sirrotica's Avatar
Sirrotica Sirrotica is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Catawba Ohio
Posts: 7,193
Default

On my oval track car I had the rear joint break, the front came out of the back of the transmission hit the ground and launched the driveshaft up into the trunk area. Since all the sheet metal is gutted, it hit the inside of the trunk lid and tore a hole in the outer trunk skin.

Another oval track incident where a driveshaft broke and stayed connected to the rear axle, flailing around until the driver got the car stopped. The shaft came inside the cockpit and literally ground his butt cheek off like hamburger.

Tony Stewart had one come off in a rollover in a sprint car (you're straddling the driveshaft) that took a portion of the meat off of his lower calf and messed up his knee, within the last 5 years or so.

Even without an injury, a driveshaft failure many times looks like there was an explosion under the car, destroying floorboards and anything it comes in contact with. Many school buses are made with driveshaft retaining devices from the factory due to the long multi pieced driveshafts necessary in that long of a vehicle, and the proximity to passengers sitting in the seats.

It's not a frequent failure, but when it does fail, it creates lots of carnage.

__________________
Brad Yost
1973 T/A (SOLD)
2005 GTO
1984 Grand Prix

100% Pontiacs in my driveway!!! What's in your driveway?

If you don't take some of the RACETRACK home with you, Ya got cheated

  #19  
Old 08-15-2019, 11:45 AM
68lemans462's Avatar
68lemans462 68lemans462 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lakewood, Colorado
Posts: 1,418
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TCSGTO View Post
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/u...tiac/model/gto

I just got one of these. It bolts to the floor brace and tucks up so it doesn’t hang down. They make them for most popular models.
I had one of those Mike Caruso no drill loops but he quit making them. He had separate ones for T400’s and T350’s. That was a nice design that was made for the Pontiac crossmember. The RARE is on the left and the Caruso on the right. Never could get the RARE to fit right.
I'm not happy at all with the way the RARE fits. Installed with no mods the unit is tight up against my floor pan. I yanked it and placed in vice and bent it down and now it is not at an angle I'm not happy with as it is interfering with the driveshaft when the suspension is compressed.. I'm about to pull it for the THIRD time. Hopefully the third time is a charm. What a PITA! Would have been better off to just build my own.

__________________
*************************************
1968 Lemans. 37,000 original miles. GTO clone. 462ci/KRE 290 heads. UltraDyne 280/288 Solid/850 Qjet by Cliff/Performer RPM/TSP 9.5" in TH400/8.5" 3.42 gears/3950# Race weight/12.58@106 at Bandimere speedway high altitude
  #20  
Old 08-15-2019, 01:41 PM
HWYSTR455's Avatar
HWYSTR455 HWYSTR455 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Manassas, VA
Posts: 14,658
Default

Mine didn't fit either, X pipe in the way, and would have throw off driveline angles. Not sure why I didn't think of that before I bought it.

You can look up the rules that outline when a loop is needed, but pretty sure it's any time you run slicks, and/or a manual. Not sure about DOT drag radials, but would imagine so.

I say you need one if you are running anything other than 1350 joints. Same if you're running an OE shaft. I just don't get why so many are against getting a new shaft, people make do with ones that don't fit right, and are 50 years old, which is crazy, especially if you have like 15k in a driveline.

If you have a high stall converter, I say you need one.

I've seen more joint failures than shaft failures, which is generally less destructive. But many of the twisted shaft failures I've seen at the drags usually don't tear up the cars too much. Unless a piece stays on a rotating part, like output or pinion, and at high speed. Most failures occur at the launch, so it's pretty much over quick. People usually let off quick when they hear the bang.

Nothing wrong with the Lakewood ones that bolt to the floor pan cross brace. Inexpensive, effective.

A loop should be as far forward as possible, and within X inches of the front joint. Failures at the other end of the shaft might beat up the floor depending on how fast your going, but the front will pole-vault you.

X pipes, depending on how they're installed, actually work as a loop to some degree, but that will beat up the floor some still.

Carbon shafts just splinter, almost no damage to the car.


.

__________________
.

1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624
1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger
Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:55 PM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017