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Old 07-09-2019, 03:26 AM
FASTASSBIRD FASTASSBIRD is offline
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Default 1972 Trans Am formula radiator were they 3 core or 4 core?

So recently I have acquired a couple 72 radiators. the first was an Automatic car with 400 and A/C. Now this would have mandated HD cooling to the best of my knowledge. The car was a VEEEERY low mileage nothing special car (read not a Formula or Trans Am) and had less then 25k miles, so no reason to doubt the radiator which is a 72 dated Harrison with AE tank (dated Nov, 71) correct Harrison top and bottom rails and correct unmarked driverside tank (would have been IA in earlier cars) is not the original radiator. Example 2. I recently purchased a radiator on Craigslist. it was advertised as an HD cooling radiator for 70-81 firebird. I contacted the seller to ask if it was 3 core or 4 core as the pics were not so good. He assured me, that it was infact an HD cooling radiator as he personally made extra certain that option was on the car when he ordered it in 1972! ( he was a bit agitated when I asked this, so I am guessing I wasn't the first to ask). Imagine my surprise when I showed up to find yet ANOTHER 3 core radiator. this particular case it was a 4 speed version with the tank being CV with the date of L of 71. It also had the unstamped 3 core end tank (IA on 70 and 71) as well as the original top and bottom rails and even had the correct AC radiator cap still on it. Both radiators even still had the ribbed overflow hose!!!!! This got me thinking and wondering, so I did some searching on PY and came across a few mentions that stated 72 DID NOT use or install 4 core radiators for some reason. This seems VERY counterintuitive to me so my question is can anyone confirm or deny this? are there any low mile survivor cars with the original radiators still in them? These would be my preferred method of dispelling or confirming the myth, as we all know the books have been wrong before. Any help or info would be greatly appreciated!!! Sorry for the long winded post and thanks in advance for the help

  #2  
Old 07-09-2019, 09:13 AM
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Red Goat Red Goat is offline
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This won't specifically answer your question, but may help.

I have documented three '73 4-speed SD Trans Am's with their original 3 core radiator. One is a 12k mile 4-speed, non air. Another is my 32k mile 4-speed, non air. If you didn't order a/c or HD cooling, you got the three core radiator along with the 114 fan shroud.

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Old 07-09-2019, 12:04 PM
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it is my belief that the four core radiators didn't come till later in the second gen run - I believe all the rads for the early cars were two or three core units.

I believe that the rads can be re-cored into a four core rad - but original units should in fact be three core.

Here's the cars I know best (because I cannot base my assumptions on cars I don't know a history on):
1) my 1970 Formula; original three core rad is still with the car.
2) my brother's 1973 Formula (350/350); original two core rad was recently swapped for a 1980(?) four core rad.
3) my cousin's 1971 Trans Am (TH400/AC); to the best of my recollection it has a three core rad (I'm going from memory) - the car is painfully original - I can confirm and post later what it has if the forum will let me reply again here later.

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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
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Old 07-09-2019, 12:17 PM
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I have the original radiator in my 72 T/A. It is a 3 core. The radiator tag matches the original build sheet also. 4spd car with A/C. Can't get more definitive than that!

  #5  
Old 07-09-2019, 12:22 PM
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I just recently discovered on 2 1974 sds non air, 4 speed cars,that where both original, where 2 cores, with plenty of room to turn them into 4 cores and my 71 350 ac auto car had a 3 core with one 4 core tank.
Pic of 74 tag
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Old 07-09-2019, 12:28 PM
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Come on Teri you expect me to believe that Pontiac put a 2 core radiator in a Super Duty ? Lol

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Old 07-09-2019, 04:07 PM
FASTASSBIRD FASTASSBIRD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by necdb3 View Post
I have the original radiator in my 72 T/A. It is a 3 core. The radiator tag matches the original build sheet also. 4spd car with A/C. Can't get more definitive than that!
That is EXACTLY the kind of info and documentation I was looking for!!!!!! You can't argue with the original build sheet for sure.

Anyone else have a low mileage survivor?

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Old 07-09-2019, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norwood View Post
Come on Teri you expect me to believe that Pontiac put a 2 core radiator in a Super Duty ? Lol
😉 you know the truth, hard one to believe , where’s all the 74 4 speed stick guys?

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Old 07-09-2019, 05:03 PM
formula kid formula kid is offline
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On the 74 forum where they are listed.

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Old 07-09-2019, 05:04 PM
formula kid formula kid is offline
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Sorry just had to do it.

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Old 07-09-2019, 05:36 PM
eaglesan13 eaglesan13 is offline
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The radiator in my 1971 Trans Am with 18K original miles is a code FR, with CV and IA tanks. The first picture below is of the actual radiator core after I replaced it when I did the engine work a few years ago. As you can see, it is a three core.

The radiator in my old 1970 Trans Am, which was a four speed a/c car was a code FP radiator, with CV and IF tanks. The second picture is of the new radiator core before it was installed by the radiator shop. It is a four core radiator.
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Old 07-09-2019, 05:50 PM
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unruhjonny unruhjonny is offline
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@ eagles - when you say the second picture was the core before it was installed, are you suggesting that it originally was a four core(?) or just showing that a four core can be installed on the original tanks?

I had my rad re-cored about twenty years ago, and declined upgrading to a four core - regrettably, the rad tag didn't make it's way back onto my rad, and I didn't realize it till a while after I received my re-cored rad back from the shop.

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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #13  
Old 07-09-2019, 06:20 PM
FASTASSBIRD FASTASSBIRD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by necdb3 View Post
I have the original radiator in my 72 T/A. It is a 3 core. The radiator tag matches the original build sheet also. 4spd car with A/C. Can't get more definitive than that!
necdb3, is the driver tank on your 72 stamped with the IA or is it blank? both mine are blank, I also have a March 73 superduty radiator complete with the original tag still on it that shows IF however the tank is unstamped like every radiator I've seen assembled after 71

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Old 07-09-2019, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unruhjonny View Post
@ eagles - when you say the second picture was the core before it was installed, are you suggesting that it originally was a four core(?) or just showing that a four core can be installed on the original tanks?

I had my rad re-cored about twenty years ago, and declined upgrading to a four core - regrettably, the rad tag didn't make it's way back onto my rad, and I didn't realize it till a while after I received my re-cored rad back from the shop.
Twenty years ago very few cared or even knew what a tag was lol

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Old 07-09-2019, 06:54 PM
eaglesan13 eaglesan13 is offline
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The only reason I said the picture was of the core before it was installed, was because the picture WAS of the core before it was installed. The guy (Joe) who bought my old 70 trans am (with a heavy duty cooling system) is doing a high end restoration, so he sent the radiator to a local (old school) radiator shop to be recored. They told him that they could recore it, but the replacement core comes with the top and bottom rails installed, and the rails were slightly different in appearance. No one will ever see them once installed, but Joe wanted it done 100% correct, so the radiator shop removed the original rails from the old core and shipped them to Keystone Heatex in Roseville MI. Keystone then built a new (four) core using the original rails and shipped it back to Joe. I snapped the picture of the new four core before Joe took it to the radiator shop to have the original CV and IF tanks installed.

The passenger side tank on a three core radiator is 3 inches wide, while the driver side tank is only 2.5 inches wide, (see photo's 1 and 2).

However, on a four core radiator (FP code in 1970 and 1971), both tanks are 3 inches wide. Photo 3 below is of a driver side tank on a car equipped with a heavy duty cooling system, which is a four core radiator.

I do not know about 1972 or later radiators.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unruhjonny View Post
@ eagles - when you say the second picture was the core before it was installed, are you suggesting that it originally was a four core(?) or just showing that a four core can be installed on the original tanks?
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Old 07-09-2019, 08:03 PM
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unruhjonny unruhjonny is offline
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thank you very much for expanding upon your prior post.
Sorry if I annoyed you;
I seemed to recall something about original four core rads being wider - but couldn't recall if it was the tank or just the insert.

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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #17  
Old 07-09-2019, 08:58 PM
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necdb3 necdb3 is offline
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Fastassbird, Read this thread.



https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=781820

  #18  
Old 07-09-2019, 09:36 PM
FASTASSBIRD FASTASSBIRD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unruhjonny View Post
thank you very much for expanding upon your prior post.
Sorry if I annoyed you;
I seemed to recall something about original four core rads being wider - but couldn't recall if it was the tank or just the insert.
The passenger side Tanks are 3 and 4 core units, Harrison used a smaller drivers side tank (IA for 3 core IF for 4 core) as well as different cores. If you look at Eagles pic closely, you can see about a full inch of space between the actual core and the end of the plat that the tank is crimped and sautered to. If you look REAL close you can actually see the divots where it would be stamped out to be used with a 4 core center. This is why you will see CV or CU on both 3 core AND 4 core radiators This is the same across the platforms as well. for example 70 Chevelle AND 70 GTO both used the SAME radiator tanks. using the auto as an example got you XI/IA for 3 core and XI/IF for HD Cooling

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Old 07-09-2019, 09:47 PM
FASTASSBIRD FASTASSBIRD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by necdb3 View Post
Yea, between your radiator the application chart and a couple others I feel pretty confident that even the HD Cooling radiators were 3 core fore whatever reason. I will search the FI tank code to check on the auto version. If you ever have the chance can you try and see if your radiator has the IA stamped tank or not? neither of mine do and I am pretty sure they have NEVER been apart.

  #20  
Old 07-09-2019, 10:06 PM
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Here is the same assembly manual chart with the legend attached, along with another chart.
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