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Old 10-06-2019, 07:56 PM
joes455 joes455 is offline
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Default Hard block cooling

Block is filled to water pump holes.oil gets up to 240 when temp gun is pointing at the relocated oil filter.What size cooler (plate count) would be sufficient?
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Old 10-06-2019, 08:26 PM
tom s tom s is offline
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I drove one for years with no oil cooler,Just ran Mobil 1.Tom
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Old 10-07-2019, 08:27 AM
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My understanding is that 230-260 is the target baseline (operating range), and 300 is the limit.

If you're using a remote setup, I would be curious to see your line routing at the block, if it's close to the header, you may be causing an overheated condition.

As for coolers, one place you don't want to mess around and/or cheap out is an oil cooler. Race quality (road race that is) stack plate type are the go to, and at your temps a small one would be fine. Earl's is a very nice, high quality, stack plate cooler(s).

https://www.holley.com/products/cool...ssion_coolers/

Oil systems should also use contoured/radiused fittings throughout.

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Last edited by HWYSTR455; 10-07-2019 at 08:36 AM.
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:01 PM
joes455 joes455 is offline
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I have a 50 stack plate cooler with 10 an fittings .oil will be pennzoil ultra platinum .lines are connected to the taped 1/2 " block feed holes with a 45 degree russel fittings and run up the side of fender wheel well to the filter
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Old 10-08-2019, 11:23 PM
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I'm running this cooler: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-15845/overview

My setup goes engine > AMSoil bypass oil filter assembly > Improved Racing oil thermostat > Derale cooler > back to engine. All -10AN. I control the cooler fans manually today but Holley EFI will when I do the swap.

According to Dave@Redline, 212F is the minimum temp you need to keep your oil at in operation to better remove combustion byproducts, moisture, and fuel.
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Old 10-09-2019, 07:57 AM
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Tapping the block is (probably) the best way to add the lines, but again, the fittings are pretty critical. Typical AN -10 fittings neck down to like -8, and cause restrictions. So the oil psi reading may be misleading.

Anyway, a 50 plate count cooler is pretty big for an oil cooler, I'm kind of surprised it's that high, but you're still not in any critical range. I would think it may be difficult to even get to min temps. Maybe add a temp gauge and pull the reading from the fluid itself, I suspect it may be cooler than that. So guessing it's a long, narrow cooler if it's 50 rows?

92GTA - I run the Derale plate coolers for trans & PS, they are affordable and fairly solid construction. In my case, they are low and facing forward, hoping they can survive rock shots, but suspect they will.

Yes, 212 degrees is the absolute min you want to run, but because the temps can vary due to the temp of the air crossing it, it may be difficult to manage the min in colder temps, and certain contaminates require more temp to 'cook off'. Many still recommend 220-230 as a min. Another thing is that conventional oils may not be able to tolerate temps over 300 for 'normal' change intervals/extreme use, another thing to keep in mind. I've seen some manufacturers list their' oils temp for breakdown in the 280 range, to give you an idea. That doesn't mean they actually 'fail' at a given temp, but they will break down and not provide lubrication protection for the recommended change intervals. Just throwing that out there as an FYI.

Just to comment, my engine in the LeMans is filled to the bottom of the plugs and ran it with no cooler, abusively, for 90k miles, and the bearings looked fine when inspected. My oil (conventional) change intervals were 3k. My water temps never went over 195, and were in the 180-190 range under almost all conditions. Water temps do effect oil temps to some degree, no pun intended!

Uhg. Need more coffee!

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Old 10-09-2019, 12:59 PM
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I previously used Mobil 1 but switched to Red Line, only because I'm comfortable with it. Not suggesting Mobil 1 had issues. But related, I called Red Line Oil years ago about oil temps approaching 250 degrees and the tech guy chuckled, then gave a reassuring replay not to worry.

Another opinion regarding temp here:
https://www.streetmusclemag.com/tech...-you-need-one/


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Old 10-09-2019, 05:22 PM
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The 10 an nft fittings get drilled to have min taper .there is a company that sells coolers by how much hp .550 to 650 requires a 50 to 60 plate.mine is not that narrow 11"x13" i think.anyway the company is Pegasus for anyone that needs better info.
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Old 10-10-2019, 09:56 AM
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NFT? Is that a brand? And offer full flow fittings? Or you have them drilled? Curious.

The ones that I've found that are nice are the Aeromotive ones, but they have a limited selection. They only come in black, too.

Most of the top name-brand manufacturers have full flow hose ends, it's usually just the adapters that are necked down.

Steve C. - Yeah, that's pretty close to the numbers I've been told in the past, what's in that article, but was told that the temp valve are slow to react, so you should have a more 'realistic' target value. If you have a demand 'sprint' of say 10 min, the oil temp may not spike until your done, as saturation sets in. So the valve may never full open, but the oil has already been exposed to the temp. At the other end, it may not close within a reasonable time too, and that could allow the oil temp to drop below that 212 setting. When oil temp swing from say 200 to 240, so does the oil psi. Think about that in a 'rollercoaster' type scenario, not optimum.


Anyway, when I did my setup back when, I didn't use a valve, and let it do what it wanted. But I ran a much smaller cooler too. I think the one I had made about a 20-30 degree diff. When it was installed, I ran a temp gauge in a temporary situation, had it velcroed to the carpet. Once I was satisfied of the temp range, I removed the gauge.


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Old 10-10-2019, 07:40 PM
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I'm running I think a 34 row cooler with -10 lines for my engine oil with an 85*C thermostat and it runs like a champion with a half filled block. I also run a turbo 400, converter flashes to 4600 with 4.3 gears. A 28" tyre will turn at about 3100rpm at 60mph on the highway. No issues yet and the oil is great (knock on wood) each time I change the oil.
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Old 10-11-2019, 08:33 AM
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Nice work krisr, as usual!

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Old 10-11-2019, 04:08 PM
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Different situation here, no filled factory block. Running IA2 block with no cooler for the engine oil. Transmission cooler only. Last time out it was a 116 mile round trip for lunch on a 93 degree day. Generally 60-65 MPH cruise speed on the open highway, at around 2300 rpm. Water temp ran between 180-185 degrees and the oil temp ran 200 to 210 degrees. 60-70 lbs oil pressure at cruise rpm / 20-30 lbs oil pressure at idle rpm.

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Old 10-12-2019, 12:36 PM
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Hardbloc to the freeze plugs..water temps 180..oil temps at about 210 to 215..Any hard romping or slow cruising oil temps will climb to 250. Factory rad no oil cooler..oil pan has extra quart and a half oil capacity.
An oil temp gauge is a must for anyone running a hard bloc engine or setting up or using an oil cooler system.
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Old 10-13-2019, 01:09 PM
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Ernie,
Curious what brand and weight synthetic oil are you using ?


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Last edited by Steve C.; 10-13-2019 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 10-13-2019, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve C. View Post
Ernie,
Curious what brand and weight synthetic oil are you using ?


.
10w30..local part store brand..I buy it when on sale.
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Old 10-13-2019, 01:47 PM
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I will presume it is a full synthetic oil.


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Old 10-13-2019, 01:51 PM
Steve C. Steve C. is online now
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More opinions...

What Is The Optimum Engine Oil Temperature?

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/engine-oil-temperature/


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5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE
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Old 10-13-2019, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve C. View Post
I will presume it is a full synthetic oil.


.
Yes
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Old 10-13-2019, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve C. View Post
More opinions...

What Is The Optimum Engine Oil Temperature?

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/engine-oil-temperature/


.
Its interesting running a vacuum pump how much water vapor comes out upon initial startup.
I remember an old Car and Driver or Motor Trend test drive of a Porsche 911 turbo..it would only make max power when the oil was past a certain temp.
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