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#1
02-23-2005, 04:14 PM
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Anyone read Part 1 of PHRs Project g/28?
(Ken Crocie if you're out there please reply!) It'll be interesting to follow along to see what kinda g's they can get out of a 2nd gen F-body!! I followed Ken's advice for my 72 Formula in the early 90s and couldn't be happier with my suspension/handling. Ken - would be interesting if you could comment on PHRs article as they progress through the project!
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US Air Force Retired "FREEDOMBIRD" |
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#2
02-23-2005, 04:14 PM
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Anyone read Part 1 of PHRs Project g/28?
(Ken Crocie if you're out there please reply!) It'll be interesting to follow along to see what kinda g's they can get out of a 2nd gen F-body!! I followed Ken's advice for my 72 Formula in the early 90s and couldn't be happier with my suspension/handling. Ken - would be interesting if you could comment on PHRs article as they progress through the project!
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US Air Force Retired "FREEDOMBIRD" |
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#3
02-24-2005, 10:29 AM
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yeah i read the piece. i'll be interested to see what they have to say about it.
the numbers they posted didn't suprise me much. camaro's always did handle like crap compared to a well tuned t/a suspension. the last modified 2cnd gen i drove had a herb adams suspension under it. that was the best handling bird i've ever driven. i did have to laugh tho. the first mod they did was to install the fat tires and big rims on a sloppy suspension. made a lot of sense to me. i wonder how cut up the tires will be by the time the chassis is done if they drive that car at all? i always built the suspension, shook the bugs out of it and then installed the wheels /tires. i chuckled about the stink they made in the article over the interior of that car also. what'd they expect for the price? i'll bet that gets tossed for racing seats by the time they're finished. i'm glad they're cutting on a camaro and not a solid bird. mike
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so many pontiacs, so little time.................. moderator is a glorified word for an unappreciated prick.................. "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." --Albert Einstein "There is no such thing as a good tax." "We contend that for a nation to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle." - Winston Churchill |
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#4
02-24-2005, 12:11 PM
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I did a full PST rebuild on my front end with the poly-graphite bushings everywhere... huge difference over my shot stock rubber! I also installed their sway bars front and rear to get up to WS6 specs.
I was about to install PSTs lowered springs when I called Ken Crocie (back when HO was still open) and he recommended HOs increased spring rate springs which dropped my front 1.5-2 inches by the time they settled. Great handling car!! I also went with the KYB shocks all around, so I'm very interested to see what improvements PHRs before and after testing illustrates! I'm thinking seriously about upgrading my rims/tires to 245/45/17s front and 285/40/18s rear. I personnally don't like the 35-series rears they're planning to run. Still a firm beleiver that muscle cars need some sidewall height to look right! Keep the comments coming!!! Would love to see Ken comment on the PHR project and offer more advice on 2nd Gen handling! V/R, Ty
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US Air Force Retired "FREEDOMBIRD" |
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#5
02-24-2005, 12:13 PM
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I'll bet their new tires have cut up sidewalls by the time they install all the new suspension goodies that would have prevented it too!
My other bet is that they go with the $200 seats from Summit... We'll see...
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US Air Force Retired "FREEDOMBIRD" |
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#6
02-24-2005, 01:57 PM
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i've got to agree with the sidewall comment also.
a taller sidewall will actually give some warning signs in a corner before it lets go and starts to slide. the rubber bands that are popular right now don't do that. they just break traction and the ride is on.  mike
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so many pontiacs, so little time.................. moderator is a glorified word for an unappreciated prick.................. "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." --Albert Einstein "There is no such thing as a good tax." "We contend that for a nation to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle." - Winston Churchill |
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#7
02-26-2005, 10:07 AM
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I haven't seen the article yet . What issue ??BTW I still sell all of the big sway bars and springs for the A body and F body.
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GOOD IDEAS ARE OFTEN FOUND ABANDONED IN THE DUST OF PROCRASTINATION |
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#8
02-26-2005, 10:26 AM
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Ken it is this month's issue (March 2005?). I offered them the chance to run the new CrossFlow setup Pypes will be selling (similar to the old HO dual glasspack setup) but I forgot that California cars need to stay with OEM style exhaust and that Camaro had a single inlet muffler (single catalytic converter).
Tom
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Tom Hand |
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#9
02-26-2005, 08:12 PM
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Sir Ken,
Would appreciate your review of my current suspension set up on my 72 Firebird. I got the springs and f&r sway bars from you in the early 90s... any advice would be appreciated! Shocks? Rim/tire sizes I've picked?? V/R, Ty
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US Air Force Retired "FREEDOMBIRD" |
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#10
03-01-2005, 09:48 AM
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Hmmmm... I really thought this would turn into a big thread with more discussion...
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US Air Force Retired "FREEDOMBIRD" |
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#11
03-09-2005, 12:43 PM
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still haven't found the issue.I'll call one of the guys @ PHR to see if they will send a copy.oldflm72: if you have my susp. on the car(you need my front sway bar-1-3/8" vs !.25" for PST = 36% more stiffness) ,then with good tires you can't be beat. Some of the newer members might mot remember that we beat H.A., D.G., & Rancho on the Shelby autocross and skidpad course and had the better road manners to boot(MARCH 88 CARCRAFT).And we used the same wheels and tires-yes, shuffled from car to car,to be a true test of suspension design. In fact the owner of the DG prepped car(did i mention there were three 2nd gen camaros and one 2nd gen Firebird in the test)turned a faster lap in the HO firebird than he did with his own car? As far as tires-you need a min of the BFG KD series.The usage of the car will dictate the suspension settings.for "hot street" I prefer 1/2 deg neg camber and 4-6 deg pos caster with 1/16" toe IN.
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GOOD IDEAS ARE OFTEN FOUND ABANDONED IN THE DUST OF PROCRASTINATION |
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#12
03-09-2005, 01:18 PM
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id like to turn my 67 lemans into a "G" machine. I think that would be cool, but probably impossible.
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Should you ever find yourself the victim of others peoples bitterness, smallness or insecurities, just remember, things could be worse. You could be them. Check out my sons blog, www.driftundertheradar.com  |
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#13
03-09-2005, 03:57 PM
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the man who posted above you turned a 64 into a g machine.
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costs too much |
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#14
03-09-2005, 04:37 PM
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Hitman goto sep 92 CARCRAFT where I put the whammy on a new ZR1 Vette.
Just read the article.PAAAAAAAhtetic!! They are't building a G-Machine-They are scamming parts for their own beater!! 1-1/8" Front bar?!?!? comeon! no REAR BAR!!!.KYBs good-KONIs better.GW upper arms--Nice but no gain for handling! Poly bushings--good-they got something right.Hope they know how to install them without binding up the suspension. 255s in the front? good but 275s will fit with that backspacing.BRAKES---$2500 !?!?.I could get it to stop in 130-140 ft for $400 bucks-but if they want under 120 ft stops ,it will take some bucks.
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GOOD IDEAS ARE OFTEN FOUND ABANDONED IN THE DUST OF PROCRASTINATION |
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#15
03-10-2005, 08:39 AM
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The Global West arms do nothing for handling? I thought they provided a better camber curve (at least for the early A bodies).
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Badder than old King Kong And meaner than a junkyard dog -Jim Croce |
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#16
03-11-2005, 08:36 AM
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CAMBER CURVE---Old A Body BAD,#2 F Body GOOD!!Reduce body roll(sway bars,springs) GOOD(minimizes effect of camber curve) Improve(?)camber curve on #2 F with Shorter upper A arm AND use better sway bar and springs=no net gain contributed by shorter upper A arm.
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GOOD IDEAS ARE OFTEN FOUND ABANDONED IN THE DUST OF PROCRASTINATION |
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#17
03-11-2005, 11:53 AM
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Ken on a second Gen F body I've never been able to get that much postive caster. May 3.5 if I've got 1-1.5 neg camber.
My personal preferance for second gen 1 1/4" front bar front springs 700-740 lb/in(1985 diesel S-10s a drop in) stock rear springs and a 5/8" rear bar. Bigger rear bar will pick up the inside rear wheel on a tight hard turn or a really angled driveway.Bilsteins or Konis all around. Solid bushings. 25x10x16 road race slicks. 255-50-16s on GTA wheels also make a big improvement over 15" tires, slides in turns a little more than the road race slicks if you like drifting. Running an auto you WILL slosh fluid out the vent tube,need to extend it higher! The newer Power Steering caps also have an extra sheild to prevent sloshing there.
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Skip Fix 1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever! 1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand 1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project 2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4 1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project 1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs |
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#18
03-11-2005, 06:45 PM
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Skip--now thats a G-Machine!! My kit pieces use a 540-560 ppi front spring with my proprietary 1-3/8" front sway bar(36% stiffer than 1-1/4") and a 7/8" rear bar which IS too big for road race but OK for slalom/autocross as it makes it easier to get around the cones(power induced oversteer).The combo of the 1-3/8"front bar and 560ppi springs give a better road ride than the 770s with about the same combined roll stiffness.On a high speed road course, the 770s would probably be better.On my 74 SD ,I take some bite out of the rear bar by using rubber mounts.I usually tell my customers to put in as much pos caster as feasable.3.5 is pretty good without modifying the upper control arm.
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GOOD IDEAS ARE OFTEN FOUND ABANDONED IN THE DUST OF PROCRASTINATION |
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#19
03-11-2005, 08:53 PM
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That was my TA before I got back into drag racing. 23x10x15 road race slicks on honeycombs before I went to the bigger set up. Swapped it all onto a 383 Camaro to autocross that is soon to get the roller 455 in it for the drag strip!
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Skip Fix 1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever! 1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand 1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project 2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4 1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project 1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs |
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#20
03-21-2005, 06:45 PM
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any of you guys read the second installment yet?
i had to chuckle when they ruined the rim on the control arm due to backspacing issues. i also noticed in a sidebar that they added a rear sway bar and it made the handling worse. any of you g-machine gurus care to comment on this? mike
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so many pontiacs, so little time.................. moderator is a glorified word for an unappreciated prick.................. "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." --Albert Einstein "There is no such thing as a good tax." "We contend that for a nation to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle." - Winston Churchill |
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