[gkinch]

I have a 69 bird with 455 and t-400 it has a 3.50 gear and I am planning to bolt some slicks on it for the pontiac event in petersburg to see what it will run ! Sould I invest in some subframe connectors or not?it has 400 to 450 hp I guess.

thanks gene

[guccieng]

most certainly! anything more than stock power needs them, especially with slicks! if you don't use them, you run the risk of permanently bending the entire body. your doors may not ever shut right again! better safe than sorry. the car will ride better, too, imho.

[Eighttime]

It's just one of those things that Pontiac should have done. Actually, a full frame would've been real sweet, but we have to live with the connectors. Weld the front and rear, it's as close as you can get to a full frame.

[pro-tour79]

regardless of power level frame connectors are the best investments you can make

[niceta]

I am looking at putting them on my 73 TA. I realize that welding them will be stronger/more rigid but is there still be some movement if you just bolt them in?. I just like the idea of being able to remove them easily

[pro-tour79]

you can weld them in the rear and bolt them in front, as for still having flex, you would be correct there is no way of eliminating chassis flex and this is why you should always use solid body bushings with connectors, without them the frame's independent flex from the body can crack the connector welds and ablong bolt holes

[Old Man Taylor]

"When are sub-frame connectors required?"

When you have a uni-body.

[niceta]

Yes F-body cars are unibody with subframe on front.
So Aluminum body mounts and welded frame connectors will not eliminate the body flex but will reduce it to the point of not twisting the body/frame or is that still a possibility with slicks and/or traction bars? back to Genes original question at what point do you think you require these add ons to protect your frame?. Sounds like anything above 400HP with slicks or traction bars and street tires it would be a good investment as others have said?. Thanks, sorry to butt in Gene.

[wheelspin]

Weld BOTH ends of the connectors to the sub-frames; it's hard to describe the continous squeaking eminating from bolted on conectors .

Les

[Eighttime]

If your Firebird is a uni-body(insert sarcasm here), install subframe connectors. Period. Even full frame cars will flex on a hard launch.

You might ask some of the race guys to get a better idea of the reinforcements (such as a cage) needed to prevent damage.

[Colin]

Originally Posted by Old Man Taylor

"When are sub-frame connectors required?"

When you have a uni-body.

My thought exactly. Doesnt matter how much power you have, if its a unibody car you need connectors. I have seen 2nd gen f-bodies with cracks along the roof just above the rear top corners of the door glass many, many times. Some were stock and some had mild (under 400 HP) builds in them.
The power the engine makes isnt always the cause of the flex........just driving it hard through turns will cause it as well.

[gkinch]

thanks for the advice ! I will call the speedshop today.

Gene

[1971WARBIRD]

a friend of mine was going to build up a pontiac,so i took him a ride in my 73 trans am to show him what we could do with his.during it's build up we had ideas of bracket racing it from time to time,had added most of the parts,except had not got the frame connectors on yet.well,after it was over,we noticed the windshield was broke and like the others said,where the quarters meet the roof was cracked.

after hearing about what happened,Andrew told of taking his 79 10th 4speed to the track for the first time.slicks,4.10 gears,high rpm launch,noticed it drove like crap,had to let off of it.after getting it home found out he had twisted the frame.

there are those who have got away with it for years and others get bit the first time.

[jamaca85]

ive had the bolt in type on my 70 bird for 15 years... never had any issues... you can go either way bolt in or weld on... will work fine either way... use lock tight on the bolts and the bushing supplied with the connecters.

[PLAY400]

First thing that went into my Bird. I went the bolt in route, no complaints yet.

[AdamHoud]

What is the average cost of getting this done?

[Eighttime]

Originally Posted by AdamHoud

What is the average cost of getting this done?

It's decent depending on the connectors you choose. I personally like the ones from Detroit Speed. If you can weld, you can do this no problem. Most frame or collision shops should be able to give you a quote over the phone.
http://www.detroitspeed.com/

[iceman411]

Aluminum body/solid mounts and the CE bolt in connectors. Bolt them in at the rear per instructions and put some good welds in at the front sub, yet don't get too crazy with the welds(make sure you can get a cut-off wheel to them in case you have to remove them for any reason). Just the simple act of jacking up the car and you'll see how much stronger the "frame" is. They definately help eliminate the "wandering" going down the road and if you have a 4-speed, then no more unexpected lane changes. Have fun!!

[Eighttime]

Originally Posted by iceman411

Aluminum body/solid mounts and the CE bolt in connectors.

(Competition Engineering?) I looked at these before I got the ones from DSE. They're kinda made from small stock and they hang down too far for my taste. DSE's are real beefy and you don't even know they're there.
http://www.detroitspeed.com/productp..._body_prod.htm

[roadrage david]

here are mine from DSE as you can see the roll cage atachmend on the floor hase been conected to them fore more stiffnes..... last picture shows the supframe and conecters close together but not welded together yet.