[P@blo]

I just installed a Summit K2801 in a 400 and while checking the pushrod rotation I noticed the exhaust valve on the number 3 is not spinning like to other 15 pushrods. Another strange thing is the rocker on the same cylinder is squirting oil profusely out the same rocker. The oil flow is substantial as I would give the analogy of me taking a leak behind the barn to give an example of the flow I'm seeing coming from only the one pushrod/rocker.

Does anyone have an idea as to why this lifter is putting oil directly from the lifter bore to the rocker? I'm assuming that the check-valve in the lifter is faulty and the lifter is not doing its job in closing the seat in the lifter so oil is taking a direct route to the rocker and preventing the pushrod from spinning?

Any insight from the builders and more experienced Pontiac guys would really help me out. I tried to rubber mallet the lifter to see if it might free things up but nothing changed so I'm at a loss.

[P@blo]

Update:

Here is a picture of the offending lifter; it doesn't look good!

[Schurkey]

Stick a fork in that lifter, it (AND the camshaft) are done.

New cam, new lifters, proper break-in, see what happens.

Check for lifter spinning BEFORE the valley pan goes on. Mark lifter and lifter bore with sharpie marker, rotate crankshaft, see if lifters spin based on mark on lifter moving in relation to mark on lifter bore. Don't even need pushrods installed.

I paint a stripe lengthwise on the upper end of the pushrods with a paint pen, and then fire the engine using "ventilated" valve covers--I can WATCH the pushrods spin without losing too much oil. Keep the paint away from the guideplates, though, or it'll wear off and enter the oiling system.

[P@blo]

Thanks for the reply Schurkey, so what would cause the lifter not to spin on the lobe? The cam was broken in properly with moly tractor grease and the lube that came with the cam along with pouring a bottle of EOS directly over the cam itself before running. The oil was SAE 30 from walmart and pre-oiled the engine as well.

The distributor was static timed to 12* BTDC and it fired up right away (no more than 10-15 seconds) as I pre-filled my carb float bowl with fuel so there would be no delay. All rockers were set at 1/2 turn past zero lash (also verified it twice) and ran the cam in for 35 minutes at 2000-2500 varying rpm with no tappet noise whatsoever. All the other lobes are fine and were subject to the same conditions during this period, does that mean I didn't break in the one lobe properly or could it be a faulty product/s?

Cam failures are all over the forums so I was extra careful in making sure this would not happen and can't see what else I could have done? Also, why was oil pissing out of the same rocker and the other 15 were normal? Not oil running down the rocker and being flung up but a constant flow or oil squirting straight out over-top of the polylock even at idle. That's a new one for me as the lifter was taking the oil straight from the lifter bore and putting it up the pushrod. Could that be from improper break-in?

[P@blo]

Also, I had taken the lifters and verified the crown by checking lifters face to face looking into light and then crossing each lifter with three other lifters to make sure the crown was right. Then I rocked each lifter individually on glass before install to be 100% sure.

Tough love is the best kind I guess.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by P@blo

what would cause the lifter not to spin on the lobe?

Damaged lifter bore--lifter too tight to spin?

Heavy grease on the SIDE of the lifter in addition to the bottom?

Incorrect "zero lash" before tightening 1/2 turn?

Originally Posted by P@blo

The cam was broken in properly with moly tractor grease

I have no idea what "tractor grease" is.

Originally Posted by P@blo

and the lube that came with the cam along with pouring a bottle of EOS directly over the cam itself before running. The oil was SAE 30 from walmart and pre-oiled the engine as well.

pouring the EOS over the cam is pointless, all you're doing is "oiling" the grease that's already on the lobes.

[P@blo]

Old cam that just came out was fine as is the lifter that was in the same bore for 5,000+ miles?

[P@blo]

The lifter is apart and look what I found. Seems like the disc that meters the oil to the pushrod/rocker was not installed properly allowing oil to pass right trough the lifter. The disc will not even come out as it is stuck down in the lifter plunger.

I guess I should have pulled all the lifters apart and inspected the innards as part of the break-in procedure.

[69Customs]

Whose Lifters were they?

[sonjaab]

Were they the correct PONTIAC engine only lifters?

Many aftermarket mfrs. give you a incorrect Chevy, olds, buick lifter and
call it good!
Pontiac specific lifters have different size cuts in the barrel/sides than
other GM v-8 engine lifters.

This may be the cause of your wear/oiling issues...................

[P@blo]

Thanks for the replies guys. The lifters were in fact the Summit HT-951 lifters that came with the K2801 cam and lifter kit and are correct for Pontiac.

I was in contact with Scott Esterle from Summit and even though the cam kit was well outside the warranty period they are willing to replace the cam on a warranty exchange! This whole ordeal has really pissed me off but must take my hat off to Summit racing. They do take good care of their customers and having a good Pontiac guy that works in CS makes a national chain with personal service possible. I have to eat the shipping back but as a business I understand that they cannot just send out replacement parts without getting the faulty ones back first.

All the other lifters spin as the tappet comes up on the lobe so I'm still unsure as to why the one failed. Lash was set with the valley pan off so I knew I was on the base circle or heel of the cam for the adjustment.

Schurkey, when you check for rotation with no pushrod installed do you use a light coat of grease or engine oil on the lifter face?

[dadsformula]

Looks like you found your cause, but unfortunatly the damage is done.
New Cam and lifters with proper break in should solve your problem, although
i would be sure to verify all are spinning. If the lobe on that Cam is gone
remember the metal has to go somewhere, so unfortunatly you may need
to disassemble and inspect the whole engine to remove that material and
replace any effected parts. If the lobe still has its meat, and is only
surface damage you might change the plan some. ( I personally would not)

Summit Lifters are likely the "White Box" ones unless you selected a better option.
They work, but as you have seen should not be trusted without inspection.
This looks like a case of crappy quality control, not a bad design or manufacturing
problem as we have seen in the past. You are one of the lucky ones in that
your problem seems to have shown itself. Still feel for ya, as a new engine with
issues can be very stressful. Hang in there, your on the right track.

[troy_barker]

did you not pre-oil/ pump up the lifters prior to install? I am sort of new to Pontiacs but I have always submerged the lifter and pumped them several times prior to installing them.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by P@blo

Schurkey, when you check for rotation with no pushrod installed do you use a light coat of grease or engine oil on the lifter face?

Any lube is fine.

Do NOT use grease on the SIDE of the lifter, though. I tend to use ATF or engine oil on the side, and moly paste on the bottom.