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Old 10-08-2019, 11:25 PM
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Shift'n Gears Shift'n Gears is offline
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Default Restore a Muscle Car in Lincoln NE bad for Pontiac Hobby?

So in September of last year there was an auction that had numerous Pontiac's being auctioned off. And there were several in the Pontiac community that were there trying to get a particular car. One car in particular was a 1971 455Ho Lucerne Blue with white interior, 4sp that several people had their eyes on. In the end Restore a Muscle Car out bid everyone and got the 455ho for $92K including bidders fee. Literally days later it was on their website and although they do not post the price, it was for sale for $119K - Nearly 30K higher and they did nothing to the car. Essentially RAMC prevented Pontiac collectors and enthusiasts from purchasing the car and then stuck a price tag on it that is well above market value and makes it prohibitive for the enthusiasts to get the car.

Fast forward to today and it appears that they are sending Numerous cars to be auctioned off in Saudi Arabia, most likely never to be seen in the US again.

So the question becomes how can pricing cars out of the range of the people that keep the Pontiac hobby alive and shipping cars in mass over seas be beneficial to the hobby?
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  #2  
Old 11-03-2019, 02:34 PM
Red Box Rebel Red Box Rebel is offline
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Do not like what happened to a Collectible vintage Pontiac in Lincoln, NE. But, that is capitalism.
I have been to Saudi Arabia and there is a demand for American Muscle cars. I was also amazed at how many Crown Vics were running the roads everywhere.

If you have a Classic Pontiac, keep it, repair, restore and keep it for your grand kids.

But, if you want to sell, I have no problem with you getting top dollar regardless of the buyer and where the car will end up.

We are all guilty of making the prices higher by keeping a rather large inventory of quality cars in very good condition. How else would AMES, Year One, OPG and the rest of the industry survive without all of us buying parts for old cars?

The market will be the place that will ultimately determine the price of your classic Pontiac. The RAMC boys are either very smart investors, or will lose their shirts. Let the market decide.

  #3  
Old 11-07-2019, 01:31 AM
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Shift'n Gears Shift'n Gears is offline
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I'm all for capitalism, but what is going on isn't capitalism. RAMC has for years artificially inflating prices. Each car they sell, the price tag they hang on the next car is higher than the one before. Not because the car is more rare or better restored, but because they are intentionally driving higher profits. Look at their website and they are asking more for a project car today than a restored car cost just 10-15 years ago.

Like you mention they are now in risk of "loosing their shirt" because of the artificial prices they have created. Which is why they are taking cars to Saudi Arabia where oil money knows no limits.

So why should the hobbyists, and vendors like Ames, NPD, Firebird Central, and Classic industries care if RAMC artificially drives up prices and ships cars over seas never to be seen again?

10 years ago if you went to one of the big national Pontiac or T/A cars shows, it was not uncommon to see 15-18 SD's. Plus, RAIII's, 455HO's, and bandits were plentiful and an occasional RAIV could be seen. This past year there was only 4 SD's at the one show I went to and 1 SD at the other show I attended.

Shipping cars over seas and preventing hobbyists from owning classic Pontiacs are two red flags that our hobby may not be as healthy as it once was. Plus, if hobbyists aren't driving them and restoring them who is buying the parts?

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Old 11-18-2019, 12:19 PM
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Mike Davis Mike Davis is offline
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I am not real sure if I trust this company or not.
They had Wangers 1974 TA on Ebay without a reserve price. I was high bidder and the auction was close to over, I then get a notice where they pulled the ad right before it closed.

They sent an email and said they pulled it due to a website called Barnfinds listing it.
Then it shows back up on ebay a about a week later for $19,900.

My feelings were it was not bringing as much as they thought it would so they pulled the listing and relisted with a buy it now price. Should have had a reserve price if they had a number in mind.

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Old 11-21-2019, 11:45 AM
Formulajones Formulajones is offline
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An eye opener for me recently with Saudi Arabia happened where my son attends college. There is a student from Saudi attending classes there. I was in the parking lot with our 69 Z and he approached me. Asked if it was for sale. My first thought was "a college student can't afford these things" but then during the conversation he stated he was looking for all kinds of muscle cars and sending info to his people in Saudi, where they would then purchase them and ship them home, and he stated his people specifically were looking for more 1st gen Z/28's. He also tried to purchase my sons fox body mustang.
Nice fellow and very polite, but it occurred to me this isn't just happening in auction houses, they have scouts everywhere, lol.

  #6  
Old 11-21-2019, 05:33 PM
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starlightblack starlightblack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Formulajones View Post
An eye opener for me recently with Saudi Arabia happened where my son attends college. There is a student from Saudi attending classes there. I was in the parking lot with our 69 Z and he approached me. Asked if it was for sale. My first thought was "a college student can't afford these things" but then during the conversation he stated he was looking for all kinds of muscle cars and sending info to his people in Saudi, where they would then purchase them and ship them home, and he stated his people specifically were looking for more 1st gen Z/28's. He also tried to purchase my sons fox body mustang.
Nice fellow and very polite, but it occurred to me this isn't just happening in auction houses, they have scouts everywhere, lol.
American Muscle isn' t just enjoyed by Americans :)

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Old 11-30-2019, 03:51 PM
Formulajones Formulajones is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starlightblack View Post
American Muscle isn' t just enjoyed by Americans :)
That's a given, as we see this at auction houses everywhere. Point was that a college student being a scout for cars while he's in the country taking classes and sending info back to Saudi Arabia is kind of taking things to another level.

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Old 12-14-2019, 09:58 AM
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TCSGTO TCSGTO is offline
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Classic car auctions in general have artificially pushed up the prices of old cars beyond what they would normally be valued at. Almost every price guide and classic car stealership uses major auction prices to determine values. It no secret shill bidding is rampant at these things. The individuals running the auction houses have been known to run their own cars across the block, get the bids up, then put it back on the trailer and haul it to their next show, rinse and repeat. In any other investment field that would be not only immoral but illegal.

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