[steve68bird]

I have a 68 bird that I am planning to put a 455 Pontiac engine in. Several people that I have talked to suggest going with a Chevy engine. They say that a Pontiac engine will not hold up as long as a Chevy and cost twice as much to build. I would like to stay with the Pontiac, but I don't want to drop alot of money into it if it isn't going to last. Any info? I have a Pontiac 350 and 455, they say sell both & buy Chevy. I don't know!

[steve68bird]

I have a 68 bird that I am planning to put a 455 Pontiac engine in. Several people that I have talked to suggest going with a Chevy engine. They say that a Pontiac engine will not hold up as long as a Chevy and cost twice as much to build. I would like to stay with the Pontiac, but I don't want to drop alot of money into it if it isn't going to last. Any info? I have a Pontiac 350 and 455, they say sell both & buy Chevy. I don't know!

[b-man]

That is a load of baloney, a Pontiac engine will last just as long as a Chevy engine if not longer and does not cost twice as much to build. I have a couple of 455 engines, neither one cost a fortune to build and both have hung in there for a long time, 10 years bracket racing on one (original '74 factory lower end, untouched!) and 4 years (30K miles) street driving on the other. You can see and read a bit about both cars by clicking on my sig.

When it comes to all-out race engines the Chevy has the edge on parts pricing. But on most healthy street engines and moderate race engines the Pontiac costs nearly the same as the more popular Chevy to build.

Keep your Pontiac all Pontiac would be my advice, any decent mechanic can make a Pontiac engine run hard and last long. Chances are you bought a Pontiac because of the great styling and to be different from the rest of the Chevy crowd, prove them all wrong and go 455.

Let's go racing!
www.outlawpontiacs.com/members/B-Man2.php
www.outlawpontiacs.com/members/B-Man.php

[WDCreech]

Somebody is trying to fill you full of sh!t. A Pontiac will last as long as a Chevy as long as you don't try to drive it like a chevy. Pontiacs make torque. Don't need to wing them like a chevy. It may be easier to find the parts you need for a chevy than a Pontiac but the Pontiac parts are out there. As far as money...Some years ago I built (on paper) a BBC, an Oldsmobile 455, and a Pontiac 455 with comparable parts. The Chevy was about $300 more than the Pontiac' and the Olds only about $100 more. My brother had a tube chassis '56 chevy with an alcohol injected BBC and a powerglide w/t-brake and 4.86 gear, that I drove a few times. The best I ran was a 9.175@142. My '64 tube chassis GTO, with a TH350 w/brake, 4.11 gears, naturally aspirated on racing gas, has run 9.078@144.74 on it's ninth pass. That was without any tuning of the engine. My son told me that at 200ft my front tires hadn't touched the pavement yet. That is the torgue of a Pontiac with a wide power band.

Bill

[This message was edited by WDCreech on July 20, 2003 at 01:52 AM.]

[stephen]

Drive a Car with a chevy motor, then drive one with a True pontiac motor. After that you will know what to do. Pontiac's don't require the high RPM'S to produce seat grabing power that you will want in your bird.

[bmpmdf]

Tell THE CRAP MOTOR LOVERS to stick it where the sun don't shine. That is a load of nonsense about cost. If they have never done a Pontiac, how would they know anyway? And if by chance they did one, did they treat it like a crap motor(chevy)? Done right, the Pontiac will embarass them. And live longer, turn less rpm to do it. Just for the fun of it, how quick do you want this car? I would like to help you kick some stupid rear.

[stu]

I would say that as long as you are talking strictly about SB Chevy builds, there may be a price diff. at first but it will take a lot of cash to make up the 105 cubic inches between a 350 and a 455. Big block Chevy parts are expensive, more than Pontiac stuff due to the demand. So to me there's not much substance to that argument. Happiness is cubic inches, and you get that on your Pontiac. By the same logic I picked up a 403 Olds to replace my 301, 102 cubes and a pickup load of speed parts for 200 bucks. Not bad, once again it's a question of demand. Notice I didn't drop in a Chevy even tho I have a stack of HP heads and blocks.

[ontheblocks]

My experience since coming back to the real cars, has been that Pontiacs cost 50% more to build, and are going to last 100% longer!

455's and a TH400 will churn the torque all day. Change the oil and check everything else religiously, and you will be much happier keeping up a tradition vs. taking the easy way.

If it has ti*s or tires, it's gonna cost ya!

[ventura7211]

Sbc's on cost less if your doing stock rebuilds.

Pick up a summit catalog and look how much the good stuff costs like pistons, rods, cranks, heads.

Pistons will be withing $50 or so
Rods vary as their a more choices for the sbc
Cranks will cost more because I've been told that sbc need a forged crank to live (told by the experience of racers at several tracks) Of corse the pontiac crank should be free sbc $300 up
The added cost of the crank made the descision for me to continue running pontiacs.

There are alot of options in heads for the s.b.c it depends on your goals. Of course the same can be said for pontiacs too. The 455 can make the same or more power as a sbc at 1000-2000 rpm less with less "exotic" parts.Besides the 455 fills the engine compartment better

[77TA]

I was told the exact same thing many years ago and agian just last year at the track by a bracket racer with a 69 GTO with a 350 Chevy under the hood. Hold up better and run faster he said. SO happened we got lined up in time trials. I can't say for sure on the hold up better but that 69 GTO sure looked Nice in the REarview Mirror as I went down the track. He came over later to see what was under the hood. he saw a completely stock looking Pontiac engine. He just walked away shaking his head.

1977 TA SE y82 I think. T-tops Black on black best ET 12.70@108.3 on DR's

[bmpmdf]

Way to go 77T/A

[mikeb]

I personally witnessed 3 chevy powered cars refuse to run (one was a big block chevy, not sure about the others) a certain pure-pontiac powered firebird this friday after it rolled off the trailer and made a "test run".

Apparently the firebird owner had engaged in $benjamin runs with the chevy people beforehand and they backed out at the track

Don't put a chevy engine in there. No need.

[Big Mike]

If you are into challenges, building a fast Pontiac takes a little thought and effort. When you are done, you will be proud of your results, enjoy the torque and drivability of the Pontiac and know that your Pontiac automobile is filled with the soul and heart of the correct brand of engine. Look in all the car magazines, Chevy, Chevy, Chevy.... Where is the challenge? Everybody's got one. If you cannot make a fast Chevy, you've got no business trying to build and engine. I got ribbed about my Pontiac engines all through high school from my Chevy buddies. End the end, I could run with the best of them. As stated in the earlier posts, engine parts cost nearly the same. What makes any engine buildup expensive is the wrong choice of parts. Too much cam, too big a carb, ect.
Read the posts from the engine builders in this forum and you will learn all you need to know about building a fast Pontiac!

Big block? Small Block? Nope, It's a Pontiac Engine!

[steve68bird]

Thanks for the info guys! I kind of thought they might be blowing smoke about the Pontiac motors. Two of the guys are Chevy racers so that probly explains their suggestions. I have got my 455 torn down getting ready to send to machine shop and start ordering parts, does any one have any suggestions on what to put in it to make it streetable but also quick at the local track from time to time? The car will mostly be a cruiser, butu I want it to be a quick cruiser. The engine is completely stock, and I also have a Pontiac 350 that I have been told to use the heads off of, they are 6x. I also have a 350 tranny, will this be strong enough for the 455? Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks again for the posts!

[WDCreech]

I run a TH350 in my. race only, '64 goat (9.07@144, 2600#), only 9 passes as yet, but so far so good. My son built the tranny and used some upgrades. Probably the most important was the TCI intermediate (modified TH400) sprag. In stock form, the 350 would be ok for regular street driving but wouldn't last under hard use behind a 455. I have a turbo-input glide as back-up, just in case.

Bill

[shark landis]

We love guys that build Ponchos with Chevy power. The previous owner of our '64 goat had it tubbed and caged, back-halfed with a 9" and ladder bars, then sold it to us cheap when his "big block" took a dump. Tried to tell him...bowties are for sissies! Anyway, we're back with Pure Pontiac motivation now. Gas it up, run the number, park it 'til next race day and do it again. Parts are getting much more readily available, but even the Chevy guys pay for the good parts, I don't care what they tell you. I can buy Eagle cranks for less than it used to cost for my machine work, E-heads still cheaper than RA IV's and Eagle rods cheaper and stronger than old SD units. I'll stick to my guns, thank you. Haven't had to use anything but Pontiac parts yet, except for the Eagle rods, cheap insurance. I tease my Chevy buddies when they go to buy screw-in studs, guide plates, windage trays and oil deflectors. I just ask them what happened to the ones that came on the car and they give me that puzzled look. I just grin.

[WDCreech]

Update on my turbo 350. On Labor Day (last race day of the season), lost second gear, but still ran a 9.49 @ 143. I'll put the glide in for next year. Rev-limiter was set at 7250, but the recall said it went to 7800. Everything's ok in the bottom (love that Titan pump).

Bill

[badass76ta]

pontiac magazine built a pontiac 350 that hit 672 horsepower !!!! im not ****ting you naturally aspirated. so yeah what motor can make that with only 350 cubic inches.

[TA454]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by badass76ta:
so yeah what motor can make that with only 350 cubic inches.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How bout ANY NASCAR motor . You dont follow the NHRA Drag Races do you? Cause if you did you would also know that The Pro Stock trucks were limited to only 358 cid. For those of you not very mechanically inclined that comes out to be a 350 with a .03 over bore. There is also a guy running a small block in Top Alcahol Dragster granted he is running on nitro due to the fact that he is Naturally Asperated.Prehaps you should take some time to walk around the Comp Eliminator pits at a National or divisional event to see what some of those guys are squeezing out of a V6. So therefore my question is why ONLY 672 HP out of a 350.

[Nicks67]

Well TA454 gotta correct you...a 350 .030 over is 355, a 350 .040 over is 358. Anyways, why do you guys kill on chevy? Have you ever felt a SB sing at 8000 rpm through 5 gears? I have and i might go do it on the highway here in a few minutes just cause i can. Dont hate on the SBC, its the most diverse and popular motor for a reason. Now i grew up on pontiacs and currently am building one for my Dad but why the Chevy hate? Are you jealous? Now for my input....Leave the Chevy motor out of the firebird, there is nothing more dissappointing than going over to a hard running poncho at the track and seeing that same bigblock chevy in it, i see that and walk away, its horrible. I respect the fact that you guys build ponchos to run and not just to show cause thats there reputation....show only. So keep it up but dont hate on the SBC

I bet im the only 21 year old whose had HIS OWN subscription to "Hot Rod" for over a decade