[Half-Inch Stud]

I REMEMBER being in a 63 split-window with the 327 4-speed when it grenaded the IRS DIff. It got wheelhop during a 1st-2nd opportunity. Opportunity sounded like a missed shift with hammer-in-the bucketseat effect. Certainly remember pushing it back to its driveway.

Post-mortem: Diff case split.
Fix: A repop HD Diff case. I had advised putting a 12-bolt centersection in, from a Big-Vette.

[JSAauto]

Originally Posted by pontiac jack

Say what??

Did you understand that this was a complement about how fast your car runs??

[JSAauto]

Originally Posted by WDCreech

I first read this thread this morning and the posts by JSAauto have been eating on me. So I have to tell you a story about a road race that I had with a friend in his "67 400hp, 427, 4speed Corvette. I had a '63 LeMans with a dual quad, hydraulic cammed, .040 over 389 and a 3.23 Speacial Vista Cruiser rear. He left in front of me and I stayed on his tail until we got to a half mile straight. Came out of a hard left hand curve, nailed it and before we got to the end of the straightaway, I pulled in front of him. When we got to the bar that we were racing to, I told Kris to keep it under his hat because I didn't want everyone to know how quick my car ran as I was street racing for money, some weekends. A couple years later I beat the first 450hp, 454 Chevelle that came to Anchorage. So you can't tell me that a Pontiac will be beat, just because it's racing a Chevy. Also My son just told me that there is a guy on Pinks, that has an Indian Adventures in a vette, that is kicking butt. As my dad used to say, "Put that in your pipe, and smoke it"

Not sure why my posts are "eating at you", but I can understand why you're so patriotic flying the Pontiac flag. I did for 20 years of my life.

One guy with a Vette and one guy with a Lemans on one road out of the thousands of guys across the country with a similar scenario. Doesn't seem to be apples for apples with me. Take someone like Mark Donahue, a living racing legend that raced these types of races daily, and I'm sure he could tell you who was on top of the heap in 1969.
http://www.motorsportshalloffame.com...nahue_main.htm

Seems like you guys just don't understand the whole "even playing field concept". If the Poncho's were the big dawgs... you'd see them in NHRA, IHRA, NASCAR, TRANS AM, etc being competitive using their traditional parts as casted.

Like I said... your alligiance is fine. It's cool really. Pontiacs have body lines and styling like no other. But like I said... when a traditional bore spacing Poncho motor shows up lined up against the likes of Warren Johnson, then the dreaming stops and proof becomes evident. You'll also find this out to be true in the shootout style normally aspirated heads up racing organizations. Even GM realized that the old Poncho motors would never be competitive with what the "cheap" and inexpensively produced large block Chevies could produce in the H.P. realm. Or haven't you heard of Big Chief heads from Pontiac??

Case closed.

[JSAauto]

Originally Posted by Mo

Cool story Bill.

A Pontiac in a Vette = shredded IRS. That is why they used those weak a$$ snail blocks to reduce warranty claims. I recall an article about 427 Cobra vs BB Corvette(1969?) and the vette grenaded the IRS. Whoops!

Some history about Cobras and Vettes in racing history.

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/vintage/vette.html

At one time, you had to start your sentance with Ford, Cobra, or Shelby to talk to me. I was a big fan of Carrol's and Ken Miles' work.
http://www.tamsoldracecarsite.net/Riverside19633.html

Take a look at the winnings of team Corvette over the years.
http://www.corvettethunder.com/chron-corv.htm

Even though the SC Cobra's were an awesome machine.... GM wasn't going to let that slide at the race track. Hence.... the "Grand Sport" corvette.
http://www.automedia.com/One/Grand/S...es20030901gs/1

Note: The Cobra's had dual quaded 427 side oiler big blocks... and the Vettes had those "weak a$$" 377 F.I. "snail blocks".
http://www.grandsportregistry.com/63_history.htm

A David vs Goliath approach if you ask me. Sorry if GM and Zora just outsmarted the Ford guys.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[Wareagle]

Warren Johnson ? who cares- this post is about a 455 in a Vette-sounds good.

[Mo]

BS QUOTE:
A David vs Goliath approach if you ask me. Sorry if GM and Zora just outsmarted the Ford guys.

Hardly, the che-Vette had an all aluminum motor. A ZL something. Just saying when it DRAG raced the 427 Cobra the vette threw chunks on the track. Your basic Pontiac 455 will do the same thing. I know mine would shred that IRS.
If you are going to put a Pontiac in a mid-late 70's vette then stick with a 400. It will keep the plastic body from cracking as well.

Tell me more about the great 1975-1981 Corvettes.

Old vettes are for suckers. Parts cost 2-3 times as much just because it fits a vette. Amazing how many parts in Paragon are available from GM or Year One for a third the cost.

Funny Story: About 15 years ago a couple hot shot lawyers come in the shop with their 63 split window. A low 20k mile car. Real clean on top. The cats meow. Paid TOP dollar. The rarest, bestest car ever, right. Car wouldn't run for sh!t. Poor vette needed a tune-up real bad. Everything was original . Get this, they wouldn't let us replace the spark plugs because they had the "original" overspray on them. We (the shop) had to clean the old plugs as well as the points inside the cap and the rotor. The head mechanic changed the oil as well becuase of all the raw fuel mixed in. The car did run better but was running rich and needed the carb overhauled. No way were they gonna risk damaging the originality of the car by removing the carb. So after paying 3 times, in labor, of what it would cost to do a proper tune up, off they went with black smoke out the pipes. The best part, after they left, was when the mechanic revealed they were not the original plugs. They had overspray on them because the TOP of the engine was detailed, as in, repainted. They didn't know sh!t, but they thought their sh!t didn't stink just cause they owned a Vette. Typical CHEVY hoes!
The best is when you feed into the hype. They LOVE that. Just keep telling them how great that piece of plastic is as they hand over the plastic(Visa-MC). It's Priceless. LOL. SUCKERS!!!

[JSAauto]

Originally Posted by Wareagle

Warren Johnson ? who cares- this post is about a 455 in a Vette-sounds good.

When was your screen name WDcreech??

[JSAauto]

Originally Posted by Mo

BS QUOTE:
A David vs Goliath approach if you ask me. Sorry if GM and Zora just outsmarted the Ford guys.

Hardly, the che-Vette had an all aluminum motor. A ZL something. Just saying when it DRAG raced the 427 Cobra the vette threw chunks on the track. Your basic Pontiac 455 will do the same thing. I know mine would shred that IRS.
If you are going to put a Pontiac in a mid-late 70's vette then stick with a 400. It will keep the plastic body from cracking as well.

Tell me more about the great 1975-1981 Corvettes.

Old vettes are for suckers. Parts cost 2-3 times as much just because it fits a vette. Amazing how many parts in Paragon are available from GM or Year One for a third the cost.

Funny Story: About 15 years ago a couple hot shot lawyers come in the shop with their 63 split window. A low 20k mile car. Real clean on top. The cats meow. Paid TOP dollar. The rarest, bestest car ever, right. Car wouldn't run for sh!t. Poor vette needed a tune-up real bad. Everything was original . Get this, they wouldn't let us replace the spark plugs because they had the "original" overspray on them. We (the shop) had to clean the old plugs as well as the points inside the cap and the rotor. The head mechanic changed the oil as well becuase of all the raw fuel mixed in. The car did run better but was running rich and needed the carb overhauled. No way were they gonna risk damaging the originality of the car by removing the carb. So after paying 3 times, in labor, of what it would cost to do a proper tune up, off they went with black smoke out the pipes. The best part, after they left, was when the mechanic revealed they were not the original plugs. They had overspray on them because the TOP of the engine was detailed, as in, repainted. They didn't know sh!t, but they thought their sh!t didn't stink just cause they owned a Vette. Typical CHEVY hoes!
The best is when you feed into the hype. They LOVE that. Just keep telling them how great that piece of plastic is as they hand over the plastic(Visa-MC). It's Priceless. LOL. SUCKERS!!!

Man... you make so many un-educated statements... I don't know where to start? "Chevy hoes"? "weak a$$ snail blocks"? "plastic"?? Sounds to me like your jealous or something.

1st of all...... The difference between a showroom Cobra and a Showroom Vette is like the difference between a 2002 Camaro SS and a 2002 ZL1 F-1 Camaro 600 HP 427. The Cobra's were totally limited production all out custom race cars. 4" tube chassis, 12 or 14:1 motors, dual quads, 2300-2400lbs. A Corvette in the same years were all the same stuff you'd find on a showroom floor nothing even close to being as extravagent or race ready.

The reason I posted the links is so you could learn something about racing history. Obviously you didn't bother reading anything about the "Grand Sport". It was an all CAST IRON engine!! The original ZL1 all aluminum block 427 you mentioned was produced in 1969 only. Only 2 were ever produced. The "Grand Sport" was a Cobra eater, plain and simple. Shelby had nothing to compete with it. And that was WITH an IRS rear end.

As far as the IRS suspensions.... I guess it's like anything. If you know how to work on them, they can be very strong. The weakest points are the half shafts. But the differential is a similar 10 or 12 bolt that you find under a Poncho. I've got a customer with a 69 427 Vette that makes 660 RWP and has never had a problem with the rear end on or off slicks.

The IRS suspension should be evident to any motorhead that this car was made for handling and not all out drag racing. So again... apples and oranges. All out drag Vettes usually end up going to solid axle rear ends.

As far as Vette owners.... you'd be right about how nuts they are. I don't have time for the nutty ones. My Vette customers like to DRIVE their cars.

FYI.... since I am a true Pontiac lover.... I am fully aware of the ALL FIBERGLASS (or plastic as you call it) 1954 Bonneville Special that was a concept car made by PONTIAC!! LOL!!

http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z11138/default.aspx

Looks just like a Corvette huh?? Whoops!!

[Mo]

"Looks just like a Corvette huh?? Whoops!!"

Yeah, funny how the 68 vette looks alot like the "not allowed because it will hurt covette sales" Banshee. Double Whoops!

[JSAauto]

Mo...

Not really wanting to get into a pissing contest with you ...... but you're just making my point for me. You laugh at the Corvette and call it "plastic" when it's not, but the Banshee was truly made of plastic.

http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/96898

You call the small block Chevy a "weak a$$ed snail block", when it's not. You call people that enjoy, build, or race chevys "Chevy hoes", when that too isn't true.

No doubt Deloren built some cool cars and the higher up's got in the way of him from making more cool cars. But then again... he did build the Deloren with a Volvo motor

It was through loop holes that the GTO ever made it through (thank goodness!!). But GM wrote his paycheck didn't they? Do you go into work and tell your boss how to run his business??

Yesterday I watched a program about how GM's recent financial troubles are caused because of the lack of cooporation between management, divisions, and people in the shop. Go figure?? Now that Pontiac vs Chevy (or whatever division) vs Management vs the blue collars has meant their near demise of the very company that made the cars we love..... are you starting to understand the business end vs your narrow minded view?

I always respect anyones great ideas. I'm not so narrowminded that just because it isn't a Poncho... it wasn't or isn't something to appreciate.

[Mo]

Originally Posted by JSAauto

Mo...

Not really wanting to get into a pissing contest with you ...... but you're just making my point for me. You laugh at the Corvette and call it "plastic" when it's not, but the Banshee was truly made of plastic.

Yes you do, otherwise you wouldn't respond. Plastic has more than one meaning. Do a search on Google, Corvette and plastic. If there are no matches then I'll conceed.

http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/96898

You call the small block Chevy a "weak a$$ed snail block", when it's not. You call people that enjoy, build, or race chevys "Chevy hoes", when that too isn't true.
A hoe is a tool. Yes, they are tools. As in "to shape or finish" like a mold for plastic.

No doubt Deloren built some cool cars and the higher up's got in the way of him from making more cool cars. But then again... he did build the Deloren with a Volvo motor

Funny thing about that is that car is better know than the 69 can'tmaro.

It was through loop holes that the GTO ever made it through (thank goodness!!). But GM wrote his paycheck didn't they? Do you go into work and tell your boss how to run his business??

Now look who is narrow minded, my boss is a woman. And yes I do, we work as a team.

Yesterday I watched a program about how GM's recent financial troubles are caused because of the lack of cooporation between management, divisions, and people in the shop. Go figure?? Now that Pontiac vs Chevy (or whatever division) vs Management vs the blue collars has meant their near demise of the very company that made the cars we love..... are you starting to understand the business end vs your narrow minded view?

You reap what you sow. Guess they shouldn't have called them "divisions"

I always respect anyones great ideas. I'm not so narrowminded that just because it isn't a Poncho... it wasn't or isn't something to appreciate.

I do the same. I just don't think the vette was a "great" idea. It wasn't a PONTIAC, so how could it be great?

[Thumpin455_GTO]

Well one good thing came of Pontiac designing a slightly more expensive but in some ways superior engine. There is alot of Pontiac items on the LSx series of engines, things that no chevy had from the factory. Isnt there a cam cover on the LS1? Arent there ten bolts in each head? Arent the cylinder banks offset like a Pontiac rather than a Chevy? The heads are wedges not canted like a BBC, but more like a RA V that has the ports raised and narrowed to go around the pushrod?

Just from a quick look, it seems there is alot of Pontiac technology under the hood of my 98 Formula. Whats the better engine? Well that is personal preference really...
Do you enjoy digging spark plugs from under headers and the attendant burnt plug wires or would you rather see them?
Would you rather have a positive retention of the camshaft or just rely on the gear attached to the crank?
Do you think its a good idea to have hot oil splashing the underside of the intake?
Do you think having different rods for different engines of the same block size, or would you rather have almost everything be interchangeable between displacements?
Are you happy being limited to 400ci from roughly the same size block that yields 500ci with relative ease?(the sbc with most headers is only 1/2" narrower than a Pontiac)
Do you enjoy having motor mounts that you pull three bolts out of or just one?
Are you preferential to having a convoluted and somewhat difficult to install/remove power steering pump?
Do you think its a good idea to have a simple solution to running an oil cooler and remote filter, ie just tap the holes in the block as opposed to needing an adapter to even run a filter?
Do you like torque or do you like to spin and engine to 8000 rpm? 300ftlbs of torque is 300ftlbs, but where it is made is hp, because hp is a mathematical equasion, isnt it?
Do you like factory screw in studs on 4 barrel engines?
How about guide plates from the factory?
Some people think a 6" rod is a good idea, do you?

What was the first piston powered vehicle to run 400mph powered by?

The bickering about chevy vs Pontiac is silly. If they want to run a chevy, let them. When a $2500 hydrualic camed 455 in a heavier car with a STOCK converter can run within two tenths of a roller cammed BBC I dont feel so bad about having the slightly slower car.

[JSAauto]

The bickering about chevy vs Pontiac is silly.

But then you go onto bickering... lol!!

If they want to run a chevy, let them. When a $2500 hydrualic camed 455 in a heavier car with a STOCK converter can run within two tenths of a roller cammed BBC I dont feel so bad about having the slightly slower car.

Can somebody please pass the crack pipe??

Boy!! Sounds like you boys need a reality check. Here's where the B.S. stops and apples for apples comparisons start. Notice the lack of Pontiacs in these lists.

http://www.nhra.com/stats/ss_record.html

http://www.nhra.com/stats/stk_record.html

When the only thing can contend with a Mopar Hemi is a BB Chevy.... and this is repeated time and time again across NHRA tracks all across the country in Stock and Super Stock... that should tell you guys something.

Or maybe you'll just keep living in your dreamworld?

[Mo]

Langer Wins!

[Thumpin455_GTO]

well personal experince showed me a roller cammed BBC running .2 faster than my hyd cammed 455. I didnt say anything about ALL roller cam BBCs did I? Thats like sying the Chevy will beat a Fuel Hemi because you can stomp a Desoto Hemi with a 427.


The bickering comment was sarcasm JS... I happen to be quite fond of the LS1 engine, even if it doesnt say Pontiac on the block. I just prefer to run a Pontiac, maybe because I am wierd, but also because its what I have. When I started with them, parts and entire engines were alot cheaper than big chevy stuff. Fords werent fast enough unless I could find a rare 428 or something similar, so Pontiac got the nod. Most of my friends are chevy owners, most of them get to see my tail lights too.

I like low buck speed, sure you might say that chevy is cheaper to build, but not like we did it. Remachine all the stock pieces, add some ported heads, a mild hydrualic cam, and run 11's in a 3700lb car. The stock rods lived for 7 years in that combination spinning to 6000 rpm on every pass. $5000 in the entire car, including purchase price, tires and insurance, running street legal 11's on DOT tires. Thats pretty cheap considering the longevity of the combination.

Its not a big deal, why are you so passionate about it anyway?

I for one would enjoy a Vette with a 455 in it, it would just be interesting to see the Vette owners get all wound up over it. I would do it with an aftermarket body though, that is just how I am. Why cut up a real Vette, its just more work and who else woud buy it? Most Pontiac guys dont want it, and Chevy guys would hate it...

Yep. LANGER WINS!

[Thumpin455_GTO]

JS, just wanted to point out something, few of us are Super Stock racers. I started street racing. One night of limited traction and a near miss with a large nebraska ditch made me rethink the whole late night clansdestine thing.

Stock and Super Stock are cool, I love to watch them. But its much more fun to participate than watch, dont ya think? I would much rather be running low 10s with a car I built myself than watching anyone else race what they have. I chose to run Pontiacs in my race cars, but I am only a bracket racer on a budget. I have parts layin around so I use what I have.

At my level its tough to beat a Pontiac, especially when you enjoy doing some street driving with it and the 5.13 gears and 5000 stall you would need for a typical sbc to run the same numbers, make it rather unfun to cruise. 2400 stall and 3.42 gears are easier on the wallet too.

Its FUN for me, not a business. I cant make any money in this racing thing, its just a hobby.

[Razorhorn]

Originally Posted by Mo

BS QUOTE:
Tell me more about the great 1975-1981 Corvettes.

Old vettes are for suckers. Parts cost 2-3 times as much just because it fits a vette. Amazing how many parts in Paragon are available from GM or Year One for a third the cost.

Hey! I resemble that remark!

[JSAauto]

Hey John... pleased to make your acquaintance. Kinda funny circumstances though...

Originally Posted by Thumpin455_GTO

well personal experince showed me a roller cammed BBC running .2 faster than my hyd cammed 455. I didnt say anything about ALL roller cam BBCs did I? Thats like sying the Chevy will beat a Fuel Hemi because you can stomp a Desoto Hemi with a 427.

Well... the reason I brought in the NHRA stock and super stock arguement is because you can't get a more even playing field when you're talking about using trad Chevy vs AMC vs Ford vs Poncho vs whatever parts in racing.

If the roller BBC only made a .2 difference against your hyd cammed Poncho... give that fella my number. I could get the same .2 with a hyd cam and a properly matched setup if not more.

The bickering comment was sarcasm JS... I happen to be quite fond of the LS1 engine, even if it doesnt say Pontiac on the block. I just prefer to run a Pontiac, maybe because I am wierd, but also because its what I have.

Sarcasm is fine. But there are soooo many people that just have the blinders on when it comes to technology in general because of some patriotic faith in a brand name. Because I've kept my mind open and the blinders off, I've been involved in some projects that should have never done what they ended up doing.

When I started with them, parts and entire engines were alot cheaper than big chevy stuff. Fords werent fast enough unless I could find a rare 428 or something similar, so Pontiac got the nod. Most of my friends are chevy owners, most of them get to see my tail lights too.

Same with me. Back in 1990 I had a Dodge D50 pickup (actually a Mitsubishi) that I found out could use Chevy pistons and Rods. And with a turbo head, a custom header, a cam made for me from an old core, my own custom made roller rockers, side drafts and a port nitrous system, I was running 11.50's at the very 1st import drags at LACR. I totally believed in working with what you have. It's the mother of innovation.

I like low buck speed, sure you might say that chevy is cheaper to build, but not like we did it. Remachine all the stock pieces, add some ported heads, a mild hydrualic cam, and run 11's in a 3700lb car. The stock rods lived for 7 years in that combination spinning to 6000 rpm on every pass. $5000 in the entire car, including purchase price, tires and insurance, running street legal 11's on DOT tires. Thats pretty cheap considering the longevity of the combination.

You're preaching to the choir my friend. Take a look at my old Jim Hand inspired 64 GP below. 5000 lbs, 3.0 gear with welded spiders, 2 nitrous units (a cheater plate and a home made hidden port system) (Harry K?? Do you still have that manifold I gave you??) a STOCK 70' GP 455 HO motor w an 041 cam, quadrajet, stock exhaust manifolds, my 2 tool trays, spare tires, and a full sized garage jack in the trunk that ran 12.2-11.90's on the plate and as low as 10.90's on both units.

I showed up at the very 1st Pontiac Drag days here in Los Angeles. People were making fun of the car till they saw it launch. I was running faster than most guys that trailered their stuff there. And I think I had $3000 in the whole car including the M&H D.O.T. wrinkle walls. Do you like the hub cap effect??

Its not a big deal, why are you so passionate about it anyway?

Just like you John... racing is in my blood. I'm very passionate about everything I do. Been that way ever since I was a kid working at my dad's gas station.

I for one would enjoy a Vette with a 455 in it, it would just be interesting to see the Vette owners get all wound up over it. I would do it with an aftermarket body though, that is just how I am. Why cut up a real Vette, its just more work and who else woud buy it? Most Pontiac guys dont want it, and Chevy guys would hate it...

Wanna piss them off even more?? Throw a Buick Grand National (or.... pardon me..... an 89 Turbo Trans Am motor ) in it with some mods to get it around 600 ft lbs torque (pretty easy with a Turbo Buick) and blow by another Vette owner. Pull off the road and let him see what just beat him. A freakin V-6!!! LOL!!

JS, just wanted to point out something, few of us are Super Stock racers. I started street racing. One night of limited traction and a near miss with a large nebraska ditch made me rethink the whole late night clansdestine thing.

Look at the city in my profile. Van Nuys. That would be the same place that used to house the legendary Lions dragstrip. Mickey Thompson was a regular in these parts. My old boss used to see him constantly at Prestige Pontiac here in Van Nuys. I'd like to think that California invented year round street racing, and it was alive and well until recently with all the laws. Loosing your car over a street race nowadays is just too high a price to pay.

But you'll be glad to know I took money from many a blower Mustangs and Camaro's as well with that old G.P. My favorite line was, "he guys!! I was wondering who owned that Mustang over there? Wanna race my grandma's Grand Prix??" Hee-hee!!

Stock and Super Stock are cool, I love to watch them. But its much more fun to participate than watch, dont ya think?

Yes and no. I used to crew on a Blown Gas Hydro boat team, a Top Fuel Team and a Formula Vee team. Living out of a suitcase sucked. When we were repairing engines from round to round, just to make it back to the starting line in the nick of time...... that got old really fast. Now that I'm more into the Turbo stuff...... it's make a pass, read the datalog from the data acquisition, maybe whip out the laptop and make a few changes, and then have a beer. Now that's my idea of racing!!

I would much rather be running low 10s with a car I built myself than watching anyone else race what they have. I chose to run Pontiacs in my race cars, but I am only a bracket racer on a budget. I have parts layin around so I use what I have.

How many BES 525 Poncho motors you got "layin around" there bud?? Can I buy a couple from ya??

But seriously..... Ditto.

The picture in my avatar is my 69 SS/RS Camaro. 3560 lbs with a BBC on squeeze. The car is basically a Pro Gas/Super Gas deal with headlights, taillights, turn signals, wipers, etc.

At my level its tough to beat a Pontiac, especially when you enjoy doing some street driving with it and the 5.13 gears and 5000 stall you would need for a typical sbc to run the same numbers, make it rather unfun to cruise. 2400 stall and 3.42 gears are easier on the wallet too.

What kinda gears you runnin in that 69 Firdbird of yours? I'm running a 4:56 with a Continental Nitrous 10" 3500 stall unit. On the NOS, it flashes to 4500.

Its FUN for me, not a business. I cant make any money in this racing thing, its just a hobby.

I think you nailed it right there. And it goes along with my passion statement. I've done and do cars for a living still because it's something that I like doing. It's still a challenge and a learning curve for me. Even if I didn't wrench for a living anymore, I'd still have my hands deep into a project or some kind.

Take care,

John

[455Dave]

John,

I've been kicking around an idea to hack up up my 73 vette and turn it into a Banshee clone. I had the good luck to have a friend with a camera and a radio/cell phone at Barrett Jackson when the 6 cylinder Banshee was in line to hit the block. The owner heard me talking so he dropped the rope and I got a ton of closeup pictures of the Banshee. If I did it I was planning on a 455 but the turbo V6 sounds pretty interesting.

Anyway, it will probably never happen as the wife may start road racing and this thing is already tricked out with Dick Guildstrand suspension and Biltsteins so it may be matter of freshen the engine, install a stinger hood and shoot the car so she can have some fun but the Banshee would be a lot more fun.

[Mo]

A.S. The points you make about NHRA stock events are moot because GM didn't allow Pontiac to be competitive. How many RA5 455s were produced? GM let chevy do what they wanted and held the others back. So much for you trying to keep things "apples to apples" when your not allowed get pick your own apple. You have to use the one "they" say you are allowed to use. That is B.S. in my book.

Didn't you ever wonder why it so hard to get a forged crank for a pontiac? Did you really? Do you think that is by accident? Would it have been that hard for GM to produce one. They already did in the SD era, then what happened? There have been thousands made for chevys, BB and sb. They cost money too. The fact is cheby was scared of Pontiac in the early sixties and made every effort to keep them from being competitve. Ban on Racing, CID limits, HP limits and so on. We have heard it over and over.

I am thankful that there were as many Hard Core Pontiac guys out there to pave the way for the rest of us REAL Pontiac guys. If not I'd probably drive an AMC..NOT!

Remember Mr Miaggie(sp), "He who stand in middle of road, get squished like grape".

Other makes and models have their place, but NOT in my garage.

As for my choice, a RA IV, 4 spd with 4.33 in a 69/70 chebette would be interesting.