[mgarblik]

Is it correct to assume that many folks on this message board are also POCI members? I have been a member for about 46 years, member number 4199. I enjoy the high quality magazine, thick paper, varied articles from 1926-2010 vehicles. I feel they do a good job preserving the brand, hobby and history. In the latest issue, they mention a change to 9 print issues a year vs 12, effective immediately. All 12 issues will be available on-line. Citing "exponential" cost increases in printing costs as the reason.
Now, it's no secret that the POCI crowd is an old group of people. I am 65 years old and usually feel like a youngster among the POCI crowd. I have many older friends that are POCI members in their late 60's and in their 70's. Many of them do not own a computer, have zero knowledge of how to use one and will never have one. I even have 3-4 friends who do not have a cell phone, not even a flip phone, and have no plans to ever get one. I know this may sound absolutely crazy to many who read this but that's the way it is. All these folks are still active, driving their cars, living and enjoying their lives without all the technology we just assume EVERYONE has and is using. I wouldn't be surprised if 20-25% of the POCI members fall into this category.
I can see the writing on the wall, 9 issues a year immediately, 6 issues the next year, 4 the following year and then 100% on-line after that. If you want to kill off the club in 3 years, this seems like the perfect recipe.

I think it's important to know your members before making decisions. I bet the current membership would be happy to pay an additional $20.00 a year vs going on-line for the magazine. For the majority of the members, the Smoke Signals Magazine is the only reason they are still a member. What do you think?
]

[burd]

I stopped years ago, it just seemed like the same thing over and over, running an ad for parts took like 2-3 months to get in, it just didn’t make sense with forums that you could post an ad instantly. around, when Don started Poncho Perfection, i stopped poci and did that.
Poci was the thing years ago, but it’s out dated now.

[Cardo]

I think you are right mgarblik, and at the very least it either should have been put to a vote or given the option to pay more. Frankly, that magazine is the only reason that i belong to POCI. If it goes all digital, I may not be any more. There isn't even a chapter in my area. I really think with our shrinking demographic, GTOAA and POCI should be giving some serious thought to figuring out how to merge. Both are having some problems with convention locations as it is from what I understand. Membership for both only has one direction to go from what I see....

[mrennie]

I think in the days before forums, POCI served a very important purpose, along with the ability to contact experts on specific topics when restoring a car. The classifieds also allowed the niche market seller and buyer to connect.

I am 53. I hate reading online magazines. I want the paper in my hand, I want to be able to read it when I want, where I want, dog ear the pages, cut out the Harbor Freight coupons, and keep the copy if I want.

I will not subscribe to an electronic magazine. This forum provides all the electronic information I currently need, with the ability to search a massive collective history of thousands of members. Hard to compete with that.

I understand the challenge all paper magazines are facing. Costs are increasing, readership is down, and after all, it is a business. If it does not make money, it will not continue to exist.

The only reason I continue as a member of POCI is the magazine, there have been some great articles over the years with good information, and it still has value for me. I rarely have or make time to sit and read them at home, so I save them as they come in and read a years' worth while away on vacation. The rest of the membership features like ability to ask tech questions, classified ads, or annual conventions have little value as I live too far away to participate and the internet and forums duplicate the rest, in real time.

Just my observations...

[tom s]

I wont go unline,im a tech advisor for the POCI.tom

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by burd

I stopped years ago, it just seemed like the same thing over and over, running an ad for parts took like 2-3 months to get in, it just didn’t make sense with forums that you could post an ad instantly. around, when Don started Poncho Perfection, i stopped poci and did that.
Poci was the thing years ago, but it’s out dated now.

I really like Poncho Perfection and also want to support Don Keefe. He is a good guy. But it's nearly impossible to get the magazine. I subscribed 2 times for 2 years at the Ames Performance Nationals at their recruitment tent. So I am over $60.00 into the subscription and have received a total of 2 magazines in 4 years. Whoever is handling the subscriptions is doing a terrible job of getting the paperwork correct and mailing magazines. I have reached out a couple times with no reply. I finally just gave up. Really disappointed because I would love to have a cop[y of the recent Norwalk coverage of the Super Duty display.

[PAUL K]

I've been a member since 1997ish. If they cancelled the paper magazine I will not renew my membership. I kept up with my membership for the good of the hobby. The magazine was pretty much all I got in return.

[burd]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

I really like Poncho Perfection and also want to support Don Keefe. He is a good guy. But it's nearly impossible to get the magazine. I subscribed 2 times for 2 years at the Ames Performance Nationals at their recruitment tent. So I am over $60.00 into the subscription and have received a total of 2 magazines in 4 years. Whoever is handling the subscriptions is doing a terrible job of getting the paperwork correct and mailing magazines. I have reached out a couple times with no reply. I finally just gave up. Really disappointed because I would love to have a cop[y of the recent Norwalk coverage of the Super Duty display.

Give him a call or text. My sub was disrupted when I moved. Don made good on it with me.
He does have some back issues with the SD article in, ask him

[sdbob]

Here I go. Our local POCI chapter we were just talking about this. Some of us are willing to pay for a magazine. We will drop our membership if it goes all digital.. I do not care for internet reading. At work they put construction manual on line pia, at times to look something up. Member since first Gettysburg.

[Don Keefe]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

I really like Poncho Perfection and also want to support Don Keefe. He is a good guy. But it's nearly impossible to get the magazine. I subscribed 2 times for 2 years at the Ames Performance Nationals at their recruitment tent. So I am over $60.00 into the subscription and have received a total of 2 magazines in 4 years. Whoever is handling the subscriptions is doing a terrible job of getting the paperwork correct and mailing magazines. I have reached out a couple times with no reply. I finally just gave up. Really disappointed because I would love to have a cop[y of the recent Norwalk coverage of the Super Duty display.

For any of you who have had problems with your Poncho Perfection subscriptions, please e-mail me at donaldjkeefe@aol.com or call me at 585-489-9826. I have just seen the messages in my inbox here and will take care of those today. I haven't been online much lately, as I am finishing up my latest book and when it's out, I will let all of you know.

In the meantime, I have taken the subscription services function back from the Cruisin' Tigers, so if any of you have any problems with getting the magazine, please just contact me directly. Thanks!

[carbking]

With no disrespect intended, simply a difference of opinion:

I think the problem is being overblown in this thread. Yes, are will be some that would not stay if the magazine went simply digital, but I really doubt it would be a significant percentage.

And unless the attitude of the current administration has changed dramatically from when I was a member, good luck on getting the issue put to the members for a legitimate vote.

I have served as a tech advisor for GTOAA for a long time, a post I also held with POCI before the great GMC disaster.

Years ago, I would average 3~4 calls weekly with carburetor questions from folks telling me they found me in the magazine.

LAST YEAR I RECEIVED A GRAND TOTAL OF ONE (1) CALL!

Folks with questions now ask those questions on one of the social media forums. So either the folks that don't have computers either have no questions, or there are not that many who do not have computers.

Those of you against the current and probably future policy could write to the administrators, but as stated earlier, unless the attitude has changed, be prepared to be ignored.

My personal solution: I have a friend who refuses to own a computer. When he wants parts, or even to buy a car, he visits, we sit down with a beverage, and I look stuff up for him. Those who know folks such as this could take the same approach.

Again, just a different opinion.

Jon

[Dick Boneske]

Very disappointing. I believe most of us would much prefer an increase in dues rather than a digital magazine. This may be the beginning of the end of POCI. I'm 81 years old and have been a member since 1979.

I did not receive the January issue of Smoke Signals.

[Don Keefe]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

I really like Poncho Perfection and also want to support Don Keefe. He is a good guy. But it's nearly impossible to get the magazine. I subscribed 2 times for 2 years at the Ames Performance Nationals at their recruitment tent. So I am over $60.00 into the subscription and have received a total of 2 magazines in 4 years. Whoever is handling the subscriptions is doing a terrible job of getting the paperwork correct and mailing magazines. I have reached out a couple times with no reply. I finally just gave up. Really disappointed because I would love to have a cop[y of the recent Norwalk coverage of the Super Duty display.

Mike, I have updated your information and have given you credit for the payments made. I started your subscription as of today and your expiration date will be 2/14/2028. Additionally, you will be getting the last two issues in the mail which includes the Norwalk coverage. My apologies for the delays, you're in the system now and updated. Thanks!

[carcrazy]

While I personally prefer to read hard copy magazines, the fact is, like it or not, everything will eventually migrate to online.

[carbking]

One other thing to consider with digital versus hard copy:

I personally have more than 150 linear feet of shelf space taken up by back issues of various magazines.

Anyone else with more back issues than they really need???

Jon

[Drag Star Le Mans]

I'm going to re-up my POCI membership and contact Don about a Pontiac Perfection sub.

[unruhjonny]

I signed up for POCI/Smoke Signals when Don posted here about it;
I had seen the magazine get MUCH better - and quite liked the magazine.

I have enjoyed many of the articles - and even after Don left the fold, it seemed like the publication was getting better.

I have posted this before, so I apologize if you are re-reading this;
As a Canadian, I fall under "foreign" subscriptions, a cost structure which had been explained to me as being based on mailing copies to Australia;
So I have nearly double the cost, for living a couple degrees north of the 49th parallel.

Then there's the fact that I would often get my magazine a month late;
So I'm paying nearly a 100% premium, and getting the magazine horribly late.
Not happy.
When I signed up, the Canadian rate wasn't so bad;
It looks like it was $37 vs $35, but has ballooned recently to $74 vs $45.

There really should be a "Canadian and Alaska subscription" fee - because I can understand a small increase in mailing costs - but not as big of a differential as I was paying;
If you were to guess that half of the American subscription cost is to cover the magazine and the remaining subscription cost if for mailing, that would mean that based on current subscription rates, I would have to pay about 230% more for shipping than an American subscription.
Can you see the absurdity?

For the last several years I had considered cancelling...
Last year I decided to go the cheap way out, and renewed with a "digital" subscription as a trial even though I don't like digital reading (forums aside).
I'm a pretty loyal guy, and I thought that when I joined that I read that there was a ten year pin - so I stuck it out, because I wanted that pin (darn-it!);
I thought I had passed the ten year mark... and recently noticed that the pins are now(?) only issued at 20 years... ugg, I guess I'm not getting a pin.

The web site (which was recently improved) sucked BAD for downloading magazines;
Migrating to the download page was convoluted, and the tablet I use for this sort of thing could rarely get an issue downloaded.
The refreshed website is worlds better than the old one... but I think I read two months worth of magazines when they were new, so my money was being wasted.

I don't do apps, and prefer printed magazines;
This last year confirmed to me that my subscription was a waste of money.

I am open to renewing (my membership expired January 31), but am dis-incline to have an online-only subscription and am tired of feeling screwed over for having Canadian "pesos" in my wallet.

[Stuart]

I imagine POCI is facing the same problems as every other magazine publisher, in particular the cost of making a print magazine. If the big names are going to fewer issues per year, totally online, or shutting down altogether, it has to be even harder for those with smaller budgets.

I don't like it either, but unfortunately it's the way things are.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by carbking

One other thing to consider with digital versus hard copy:

I personally have more than 150 linear feet of shelf space taken up by back issues of various magazines.

Anyone else with more back issues than they really need???

Jon

I have a spare room filled with old car and motorcycle magazines, and I don't know what to do with them. It would be a shame to just toss them out, but there's pretty much zero resale value even if I could find someone that wanted them.

I still subscribe to my local newspaper but I did switch to electronic copies several years ago. I got tired of sketchy delivery (the delivery guy seemed to miss me once or twice a week, and when he did deliver the paper he was likely to toss it into a rain puddle instead of on my front step) as well as consuming all that paper just to toss it in the recycling bin. Fortunately their electronic version is easy to read on my computer or on my phone.

[LastoftheThinkers]

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

I signed up for POCI/Smoke Signals when Don posted here about it;
I had seen the magazine get MUCH better - and quite liked the magazine.

I have enjoyed many of the articles - and even after Don left the fold, it seemed like the publication was getting better.

I have posted this before, so I apologize if you are re-reading this;
As a Canadian, I fall under "foreign" subscriptions, a cost structure which had been explained to me as being based on mailing copies to Australia;
So I have nearly double the cost, for living a couple degrees north of the 49th parallel.

Then there's the fact that I would often get my magazine a month late;
So I'm paying nearly a 100% premium, and getting the magazine horribly late.
Not happy.
When I signed up, the Canadian rate wasn't so bad;
It looks like it was $37 vs $35, but has ballooned recently to $74 vs $45.

There really should be a "Canadian and Alaska subscription" fee - because I can understand a small increase in mailing costs - but not as big of a differential as I was paying;
If you were to guess that half of the American subscription cost is to cover the magazine and the remaining subscription cost if for mailing, that would mean that based on current subscription rates, I would have to pay about 230% more for shipping than an American subscription.
Can you see the absurdity?

For the last several years I had considered cancelling...
Last year I decided to go the cheap way out, and renewed with a "digital" subscription as a trial even though I don't like digital reading (forums aside).
I'm a pretty loyal guy, and I thought that when I joined that I read that there was a ten year pin - so I stuck it out, because I wanted that pin (darn-it!);
I thought I had passed the ten year mark... and recently noticed that the pins are now(?) only issued at 20 years... ugg, I guess I'm not getting a pin.

The web site (which was recently improved) sucked BAD for downloading magazines;
Migrating to the download page was convoluted, and the tablet I use for this sort of thing could rarely get an issue downloaded.
The refreshed website is worlds better than the old one... but I think I read two months worth of magazines when they were new, so my money was being wasted.

I don't do apps, and prefer printed magazines;
This last year confirmed to me that my subscription was a waste of money.

I am open to renewing (my membership expired January 31), but am dis-incline to have an online-only subscription and am tired of feeling screwed over for having Canadian "pesos" in my wallet.

I do not work in the magazine business, but I do ship stuff to Canada on the regular. The rates are ridiculous just for crossing the border. I don't agree with charging everyone Australia's rates, but at the same time that is likely just easier because setting rates for each country would be a full time job for someone 4-6 weeks of the year, when they are likely over budget already.

A price increase would be the most likely choice, because honestly, the demographic is not likely to take to online usage. If the target was 20-30 years younger that would be brilliant. I am probably one of the youngest on the forum, but even I hate online reading. Imagine someone who didn't grow up with computers.