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Old 12-18-2019, 11:19 PM
694.1 694.1 is offline
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Default Steel crank to stoke the early blocks?

How practical would it be to turn down one of the modern steel cranks to fit the small journal blocks? You could make a 389+ out of a 370, stroke a 347 at least 20 cubes too.
The 287 & 316 ports are just too small get very serious with, unless you were to use 370-389 heads & manifolds.
Sure, you could just use a 59-60 389 block & crank but that would be way to simple. Unless you were building a 421.
Curious about the potential here.
And would you recommend a morse chain??

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Old 12-18-2019, 11:32 PM
tom s tom s is offline
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Not sure what your really trying to do but it's all just numbers in a check book.i have done a lot of strange builds but have never tried to go back to older blocks.I have done 2 short deck RA Vs with cut down and offset ground 57-58 cranks.Tom

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Old 12-18-2019, 11:37 PM
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If you have to use a 57-58 block you could buy a 3in main 4-4.21-4.25 stroke crank and just have the mains turned down and not having to offset grind.Tom

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Old 01-23-2020, 11:27 AM
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Rocky 389 Rocky 389 is offline
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......and you don't need to restrict yourself to early heads if you don't want to. I've got late heads on my old 347 punched .125 to 370. Still using reverse cooling. Not a lot to it.
Advantages are larger ports/valves, screw-in studs [I used big block 7/16ths chevy studs] and pushrod guide plates. Down side is lots of CCs. I think my 73 GTO heads are 98 CCs so to get decent compression I used Jahns pistons with a nice "lump" on them. Rockers oil up through the pushrods.

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Old 01-23-2020, 08:22 PM
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Later heads sound like an appealing option, though I would top off such a beast with a 65-67 AFB intake or a TP intake.
A Q jet would just look wrong in the application, kinda like a "Caitlyn" Jenner sort of deal!
Has anyone ever figured out how late a head casting would take an early gusher tube? It seems very unlikely that the '65+ heads would -when the heads were revised,
it would make no sense compromise the design for obsolete technology.
Ah, so many engines, so little time!

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Old 01-24-2020, 02:41 AM
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Original gusher tubes do not fit in later heads. But that doesn't prevent building a reverse-flow-cooled engine with later heads. Pontiac's reason for the tubes was to cool the exhaust seats enough to get away without seat inserts.

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Old 01-24-2020, 10:55 AM
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Hey, I donít want to derail this thread but I have a question.

Is it possible to run a later block & heads and use the old style water pump?

You would have to use the early front cover, right? It has a different style seal & uses a slinger type thing. Doesnít it?

Iím thinking of something similar to what Rocky has done. A Hot Rod with the cool looking old pump set up. What would be the best way to do this and end up with a block mounted starter & maybe side motor mounts?

Thanks
Murf


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Old 01-24-2020, 11:56 AM
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I'm not saying you can or can't use an early timing cover on a later block, but if you want to get rid of the "slinger type thing" check out these instructions I wrote into a "how to".

http://www.pontiacsafari.com/L1Garag...ealUpgrade.pdf

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Old 01-24-2020, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Hanlon View Post
I'm not saying you can or can't use an early timing cover on a later block, but if you want to get rid of the "slinger type thing" check out these instructions I wrote into a "how to".

http://www.pontiacsafari.com/L1Garag...ealUpgrade.pdf


Thanks for the quick reply, Bill! Iím limited to Tapatalk right now so I canít see your link for some reason. I will check it out later this evening. I just want to let you know I appreciate the response.

Murf


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Old 01-24-2020, 12:58 PM
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JMHO,I would use the first year alu timing cover which I think is 1961 with the newer seal in it and the 4 bolt pump.I have used them on late blocks with no issues.Tom

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Old 01-25-2020, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom s View Post
JMHO,I would use the first year alu timing cover which I think is 1961 with the newer seal in it and the 4 bolt pump.I have used them on late blocks with no issues.Tom


Thanks Tom! Iíll have to look into that. Sounds like a pretty easy way to do it. I donít know how hard it would be to find a timing cover though.

Thanks again
Murf


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Old 01-25-2020, 10:58 AM
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They are around,just a little harder to find a really good one.There was one on ebay a few days ago.Just do a search for 1961,1962 and 1963 timing covers.Late 63 will be a 8 bolt water pump.Tom

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Old 01-25-2020, 11:00 AM
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here you go
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PONTIAC-61-...YAAOSwypZb1m7Q

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Old 01-25-2020, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom s View Post


Thanks Tom


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Old 02-01-2020, 02:59 AM
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I used the original 1957 timing cover/water pump and had my machinist open the snout hole to take a modern press-in, lip-type seal. If you want to the the 55-59 reverse cooling elbows at the front of the modern heads you'll find the heads are 1/4" shorter that the originals. This is a good thing because it gives you the opportunity to make up a pair of 1/4" spacers for the elbows. After you pop the front frost plugs out of your modern heads, you'll see the elbows line up with the mount holes in the heads but the coolant hole in the elbows is now offset from the cooling holes in the heads. This is where those 1/4 thick adapters come in. I used my "Christmas tree" carbide cutter in my die grinder to "blend" and manipulate those coolant holes to line up better although the coolant has to flow through the dog-leg.
The coolant passages in the newer heads appear to be pretty small but I've had no cooling problems with mine. Coming up on 3 years since I put it together and my car is not babied or trailered probably have 6-7000 miles on the engine now.
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Old 02-01-2020, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky 389 View Post
I used the original 1957 timing cover/water pump and had my machinist open the snout hole to take a modern press-in, lip-type seal. If you want to the the 55-59 reverse cooling elbows at the front of the modern heads you'll find the heads are 1/4" shorter that the originals. This is a good thing because it gives you the opportunity to make up a pair of 1/4" spacers for the elbows. After you pop the front frost plugs out of your modern heads, you'll see the elbows line up with the mount holes in the heads but the coolant hole in the elbows is now offset from the cooling holes in the heads. This is where those 1/4 thick adapters come in. I used my "Christmas tree" carbide cutter in my die grinder to "blend" and manipulate those coolant holes to line up better although the coolant has to flow through the dog-leg.

The coolant passages in the newer heads appear to be pretty small but I've had no cooling problems with mine. Coming up on 3 years since I put it together and my car is not babied or trailered probably have 6-7000 miles on the engine now.


Thanks for the info Rocky! Iíd love to see your car sometime.

Thanks again
Murf


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Old 02-13-2020, 11:50 AM
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Come to the HAMB drags. I'll be there with the car.
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Old 02-13-2020, 01:14 PM
Murf Murf is offline
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Default Steel crank to stoke the early blocks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky 389 View Post
Come to the HAMB drags. I'll be there with the car.


Iíll have to look into that. Are the HAMB drags held at MoKan? Do you go to any local stuff? Your in Nebraska arenít you? I live close to Topeka Ks so wouldnít be much of a drive, if there was a show or cruise youíd be at.

Thanks again for all the info!
Murf


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Old 02-16-2020, 05:02 PM
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HAMB drags are at MoKan. I''m in the Omaha area and I've been known to frequent all the local cruise nights.

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