#1  
Old 03-10-2016, 12:41 PM
wizard61 wizard61 is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Stilwell, Kansas
Posts: 387
Default Welting...My Latest Curiosity

Here is something I have been playing with and I wanted to see if any of you had any comments and to gauge the level of interest in possibly reproducing this component in the correct colors. In the picture the short piece of welting is an original sample provided by Steve at MMM. The longer piece is a pre-production sample of the latest material I am testing.

The material is a high quality exterior grade polymer that is color matched to the GM paint code and color for Buccaneer Red. Because every polymer reacts differently to extrusion in regards to gloss and dimensional profile. The purpose of this sample was to verify color and gloss. I am going to have to do a little tooling re-work to correct for variances in dimensional profile. I think those changes will possibly also enhance the level of gloss somewhat. Don't get me wrong the gloss is very close to the original sample.

I am sure someone will want to know why I chose Red to do first. Primarily because I have a 73 Buccaneer Red TA that already has the paint peeling off of the Gray welting. and secondly, red for some reason is a difficult color to match well, or so I have been led to believe. My questions are as follows:

Would this part be of interest and if so what other colors do you think would be viable? (Low production colors might be very expensive, Like a kit to do one car could be as much as $150.00). That still might be less expensive that the body and paint costs to paint the currently available grey profile and it would be the correct color and profile through and through.

Would there be interest in Brewster green, Admiralty Blue, etc. The one year colors?

Anyway, just really interested in what you think.

James
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Red Welting.jpg
Views:	1085
Size:	36.9 KB
ID:	423291  

  #2  
Old 03-10-2016, 03:27 PM
SD73's Avatar
SD73 SD73 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,061
Default

I think I'd be interested. Truthfully, $150 is at the extreme end of what I'd consider, so hopefully you could get some better pricing if you do pursue this. At some point I've contacted a few plastic manufactures to see if they had something that would match and I didn't have much luck. I'd be looking for Cameo White, but if you get the ball rolling with red I'm sure you'd be able to judge the popularity quickly. Good luck!

  #3  
Old 03-10-2016, 04:23 PM
wizard61 wizard61 is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Stilwell, Kansas
Posts: 387
Default

My best guess right now would be that the $150.00 price would be for the low production colors. Cameo White, because of a greater potential market for it due to how many years and number of cars sold would be much less.

thanks for your input.

James

  #4  
Old 03-10-2016, 05:43 PM
Transamric's Avatar
Transamric Transamric is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Western WA.
Posts: 2,590
Default

Definite interest here. Buc Red and Cameo White would give the most color coverage.

  #5  
Old 03-10-2016, 05:44 PM
njsteve's Avatar
njsteve njsteve is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 5,044
Default

Here's the real issue with the welting out there today. It is not color, it is hardness. The grey repro stuff is made of a hard durometer, plastic material instead of soft, pliable latex. That is why the repro stuff does not fit worth a damn.

So if you're going to embark on this project, make them out of extruded latex (the original material was made out of the same stuff that is used on modern refrigerators door seals) and you will have everyone running to you to buy a set.

  #6  
Old 03-10-2016, 06:26 PM
wizard61 wizard61 is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Stilwell, Kansas
Posts: 387
Default

Hello Steve,

Thanks for jumping in. I have had the original material analyzed (Infrared Spectroscopy) for compound as well as hardness(durometer). The material that I am looking at is extremely close to the original in both aspects. The best part is it is sourced right here in the USA! Unfortunately, that is also one of the issues with cost.

Thank you all for your input.

James

  #7  
Old 03-11-2016, 12:43 AM
NOT A TA NOT A TA is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 178
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard61 View Post
Hello Steve,

Thanks for jumping in. I have had the original material analyzed (Infrared Spectroscopy) for compound as well as hardness(durometer). The material that I am looking at is extremely close to the original in both aspects. The best part is it is sourced right here in the USA! Unfortunately, that is also one of the issues with cost.

Thank you all for your input.

James
Can the new stuff you're considering having made be painted? Lets say someone bought the white could it be painted and hold? I repainted my originals and they held 25 years with no problems. This time I'm replacing the welting. Bought the gray stuff but I'm not impressed with it. Since my car's not a stock red the stock colored one wouldn't match.

  #8  
Old 03-11-2016, 07:43 AM
necdb3's Avatar
necdb3 necdb3 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Mt. Laurel NJ, now Melbourne, FL
Posts: 1,369
Default

If it fit well and was the correct color, I don't think $150.00 is unreasonable for all colors.

  #9  
Old 03-11-2016, 11:36 AM
Stan65 Stan65 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Toledo, IL
Posts: 192
Default

I would be interested in Lucy Blue!

Stan

  #10  
Old 03-11-2016, 12:06 PM
nas t eh nas t eh is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Edmonton Alberta
Posts: 272
Default

If you go forward with this, I'd start with buc red, cam white, lucy blue and black. I think those colors would sell well in the $100 -125 range.

I'd buy the red, because my painted grey ones will likely start chipping of as soon as I start driving and washing the car with any great frequency.

__________________
73 T/A 455, 4speed
  #11  
Old 03-11-2016, 12:14 PM
nas t eh nas t eh is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Edmonton Alberta
Posts: 272
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NOT A TA View Post
Can the new stuff you're considering having made be painted? Lets say someone bought the white could it be painted and hold? I repainted my originals and they held 25 years with no problems. This time I'm replacing the welting. Bought the gray stuff but I'm not impressed with it. Since my car's not a stock red the stock colored one wouldn't match.
While I'd want to paint to match your red, I think I might try buc red welting on your red flare and see how off it looked on the car? Might be fine?

__________________
73 T/A 455, 4speed
  #12  
Old 03-11-2016, 12:44 PM
sd455hota's Avatar
sd455hota sd455hota is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lincoln Nebraska
Posts: 661
Default

I provided James with the NOS piece and have been looking at his repo samples throughout this process. My opinion is this. The latest sample is excellent. It's going to cheaper for us to buy this welting than buy the gray repo stuff. Cost for color, flattener, flex agent and adhesion promoter plus work hours spent adds up to more than buying James' welting molded in color. Also the gray welting isn't the type of material that our paint products really 'bite into' so it's fragile to work with and color can come off, especially when we attach the staples at the top of the wheel spoilers.

  #13  
Old 03-11-2016, 12:57 PM
blue71ta's Avatar
blue71ta blue71ta is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: America's Dairyland
Posts: 1,583
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan65 View Post
I would be interested in Lucy Blue!

Stan
Me too

  #14  
Old 03-11-2016, 01:35 PM
71HO4SPD 71HO4SPD is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 115
Default welting

Price sounds reasonable to me.

  #15  
Old 03-11-2016, 03:30 PM
RamAir's Avatar
RamAir RamAir is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 1,037
Default

I'm in on cameo white

  #16  
Old 03-11-2016, 11:27 PM
keith k's Avatar
keith k keith k is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 3,558
Default

I'd take a set in both Lucy Blue and Polar White.

__________________
keith k
70 Trans Am RA III / T400 / Lucerne Blue / Bright Blue
70 Trans Am RA III / M20 / Lucerne Blue / Sandalwood
70 Formula RA III / M21 / Lucerne Blue / Bright Blue
  #17  
Old 03-12-2016, 01:36 AM
giles's Avatar
giles giles is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MI
Posts: 1,039
Default

And if you've ever seen original welting on a Lucerne blue car, it's not Lucerne blue. It is close, but not metallic, but sort of a robin's egg blue.

  #18  
Old 03-12-2016, 09:30 AM
wizard61 wizard61 is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Stilwell, Kansas
Posts: 387
Default

Thanks everyone for your responses. Lucern blue and silver will probably both be a challenge, but I think they can be done. I wanted to look at the higher volume colors first. Buc red, cameo white, starlight black, and silver. Because of minimum run quantities of this type of product, those are the ones that could probably be done without losing your shirt.

Thanks, james

  #19  
Old 03-12-2016, 09:59 AM
Bentwheelbob's Avatar
Bentwheelbob Bentwheelbob is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 2,503
Default

Great work - a real contribution to the hobby. Given the surge in popularity of the late second gen SE cars, you might also consider Solar Gold.

  #20  
Old 03-12-2016, 10:53 AM
RAIVJUDGE's Avatar
RAIVJUDGE RAIVJUDGE is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 344
Default

I am in for a set for a Buccaneer red car. Keep us posted. and $125-$150 is ok to me.

__________________
Atoll Blue, Blue interior, 1970 RAIV Judge/4 spd/ 3.90/ pwr steering/ pwr brakes/ hoodtach/ gauges/ sport wheel/ console/ remote mirror/tinted glass.
Starlight Black, Camel Tan interior, 1978 Trans Am . Auto/AC/door edge guards/ am/fm, Cassette stereo/ floor mats frt and rear/Hurst Hatches
Admiralty Blue, White-Blue interior, 1974 Super Duty Trans Am
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:42 PM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017