[dataway]

I just got in a $50 positive battery cable correct for my 68 GTO ... and it got me thinking. I noticed it has to be used on a battery with proper size old school Delco terminals ... so things progressive start to spiral.

So I wanted some opinions. My 68 is a Verdora green - Ivy Gold int, hardtop, auto, standard YS engine, open diff, AC, PS, PB, tinted glass ... in other words about the most common 68 GTO made. It has it's original engine, frame, trans, almost all sheet metal, interior etc. But obviously there are hard limits on the value of this car considering there is nothing special about it.

I've owned it since 1976 .... I am trying to restore it original ... I had dreams of Concours .. but I just don't think this model warrants that kind of investment. It's 90% there ... but you know how expensive that last 10% can be.

I seriously doubt I will ever install a proper reproduction battery, which means my nice reproduction cable may or may not work and I want to install one at the starter before I put the engine in the chassis ...

So this situation, very soon, will snowball in many ways when it comes time to decide what parts I want to use as I go forward, I'm sure there will be plenty of places where if I install the proper reproduction or NOS part it will require an ever increasing number of other proper parts. Which in some cases might make the car less of a driver, or perhaps even less reliable than a modern equivalent ... which could possibly make the car less attractive to a buyer considering this is not some rare model.

I'm not looking to squeeze every penny out of this car when it comes time to sell, but I'm also not in the financial position to not care at all. So I'm looking for a generalized best bang for my buck.

So ... from a cost benefit analysis ... on a GTO like mine, is it really worth spending the extra several thousand to make it absolutely correct. I mean it's not even a convertible or a four speed. And it's not like I'm fooling anyone ... it's a frame off restoration ... no one is going to think these common parts are original or even NOS.

[OG68]

Data, you and I are of the same mindset. I wonder too if I'm going overboard on a stripped down model. When I first started this restoration I was going to add Ram Air, build the engine for more power, UMI suspension. But then I remembered how much fun this car is, as it is.
With the exception of the Ansen wheels, my parents never changed a thing on the car. When it came into my possession in the early 80s, I added Rally Gauges/Tach, Factory AM/FM, and 15" Rally IIs. Thats all I could afford to do.
And that's how I'll keep the car, but...
I'm a nit-picker and with one exception, I'm keeping the car as close to stock as possible with as many NOS parts I can afford. Obviously there are limits, such as the NOS door lock ferrules I saw on Ebay this morning. ($50.00, I'll pass) Finding the correct part is another thing I'm little anal on. As an example I'm looking for a 68 bumper jack. Mine turned up missing when I bought the car back from the family member I sold it to. And as most people know, Fremont cars had a different jack than the rest of the factories. Now I'm never going to use the jack, there are better alternatives, but I'm determined to find the right one.
So as someone once, or many times said, "IT'S YOUR CAR". Do what makes you happy with it and gives you the most satisfaction. As long as you're keeping a roof over your head, keeping the family fed and have a good college fund for the kids, enjoy your time and build it as you want to.
Oh, and by the way, the exception I have with my car is the shade of red for the paint. I'm going slightly darker than the Solar red. Never have cared for it.

[rockys1970]

I would go to your local GM dealer and order a Group 24 top terminal battery. I believe it is an R59. This new replacement battery would be dimensionally equal to the original battery and your cables should work. I think this is an acceptable solution to your situation. It would be concerned a "GM service replacement part" . Yes, you may lose a few points at a judged show but the cost is around $100.00 compared to $250+ for a reproduction battery if you can get one. The company making them has changed hands and not sure if they are readily available. Any other replacement battery brand would not be acceptable and would lose all battery points at a show. Just my opinion. Good luck restoring the 68 and enjoy driving it. Don't focus on perfection or resale value.

[Greg Reid]

I have basically the same car...base 350 horse GTO. When I went back with mine, I changed what I wanted to change as I'm not absolutely anal about original equipment...however, with every change from stock I made on my car, I tried to make it appear as if it COULD have been original.
To the unaccustomed eye, nothing looks out of place except the late style alternator. Been waiting for over 10 years for it to crap out so I can replace it..lol
Here's an example... a gutted voltage regulator in the stock location on the firewall to hide my modified 12 vdc buss bar. I never liked that big lug buried in the wiring harness in the original.



A/C delete box and Ram Air-



Next on the list, 3.55 'posi'...

[dataway]

When I look at the cars you guys have it mostly makes me realize ... finishing the job is the most important thing. Would be a shame to never finish it because I'm worrying about details that most likely won't make a difference to anyone. Like you guys, something I can replicate myself I will go to great lengths to do ... but some of the NOS stuff is just getting crazy. Thankfully we have a few guys on the forum selling nice used stuff.

Rocky, thanks for the battery tip ... I had no idea you could still get a GM branded battery with top terminals.

Greg, what are you going to do when that late alt craps out ... won't you have to run a regulator? I have no idea if my alternator will work ... I bought a new old style alternator and put the guts in my properly dated case ... tested good one place, bad the other. Both places seemed to be guessing how to hook it up to the machine

I tend to worry about stuff long before I am at that stage ... and by the time I get to the stage I was worried about ... I've forgotten all the research I did, or forgot to write everything down, or forgot where I put what I did write down. I'm getting better though .... I laminate important things and put them in a binder

[Half-Inch Stud]

@ Greg Reid ; schmart move. I too loathed the power crimped harness along the valve cover. I had relocated that harness to the fender, then finally under the intake manifold.

Can still drop a Starter with slack. Clean & reliable now. Spare GM wires allowed such manuevers.

@ dataway, Most important to finish for a driv-able car, then do the money stuff later.

[389]

[QUOTE=Greg Reid;6091517]I have basically the same car...base 350 horse GTO. When I went back with mine, I changed what I wanted to change as I'm not absolutely anal about original equipment...however, with every change from stock I made on my car, I tried to make it appear as if it COULD have been original.
To the unaccustomed eye, nothing looks out of place except the late style alternator. Been waiting for over 10 years for it to crap out so I can replace it..lol
Here's an example... a gutted voltage regulator in the stock location on the firewall to hide my modified 12 vdc buss bar. I never liked that big lug buried in the wiring harness in the original.
]



I always thought the 10 SI alternator with separate regulator was one of the best set ups going and they changed because the newer was cheaper.. I've had regular store brand battery's last 8 to 10 years using this charging system..

[Gator67]

You can always go with a topper/cover over a battery with correct dimensions and terminals. It's not going to fool anyone who's in the hobby, but it keeps things looking period correct, and blends in better than a new battery for sure. I use toppers and really good AGM batteries in my cars--all of which are correct appearing but are driven. Just peel the label off, paint it black (if necessary), and lay the cover on it. Here's a photo of the bird's engine bay.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by dataway

I just got in a $50 positive battery cable correct for my 68 GTO ... and it got me thinking. I noticed it has to be used on a battery with proper size old school Delco terminals ... so things progressive start to spiral.

Are you saying the terminals on a new battery won't match the cable clamps? The original style clamps work on any battery I've ever bought. The battery itself may not look original but the posts are the same.

[dataway]

Originally Posted by Stuart

Are you saying the terminals on a new battery won't match the cable clamps? The original style clamps work on any battery I've ever bought. The battery itself may not look original but the posts are the same.

Yep Stuart, last night after I posted that, yes I went down and checked ... and the reproduction cable does indeed fit the top post battery I was using on the test stand .... so more worry about nothing

So how good are those spring clamps? Part of me thinks they can't be as good as a bolt type ... but then a spring keeps constant pressure and can take up slack from wear without retightening .... so maybe better than a bolt.
I think the spring clamps look way better too.

I might have to get one of those toppers ... it looks way better than I thought it would.

[Verdoro 68]

Depends what you’re after I guess. The concours thing and getting judged has never been a priority for me. I generally err towards done is better than perfect. I’ve been “restoring” my car for 30 years. I drive it for a while, stop and do a project, and usually correct some small stuff in between. I’m shooting for “looks correct and factory”.

As far as the battery - get the topper and call it done.

[Stuart]

I put the repro spring clamp cables on my '61 Bonneville and they seemed to work just fine, although one of them failed after about a decade of use - the clamp developed corrosion on the underside where it fastened to the cable, and finally just snapped off one day. It may have been my own fault for not noticing the corrosion sooner when it could have been cleaned off, it wasn't apparent when looking at the clamp from the top.

They are a breeze to put on and take off - just a quick squeeze with a pliers to remove, and you can just push it on by hand. Very handy if you like to disconnect the battery when the car is not in use.

[dataway]

I guess the tipping point balances around these four choices .... an incorrect modern part that works wells, a correct looking repop that is garbage, or an NOS that is unaffordable, or used in good shape.

So far my order of choice for parts I don't have has been.

1. Used original part in good shape or restoreable.
2. NOS part if it's affordable
3. Modern part that is incorrect but it works
4. Repop if the part is unobtainable or outrageously priced used.

Obviously the repop stuff has to be used sometimes, but some of it is just plain horrible and often still incorrect.

I've had great luck with used parts ... biggest pain about used parts is the finishing ... buy the time you get them cleaned up they are stripped of their original coatings or metal finishes and that can be very tedious to replicate in a home shop.

[PurelyGTO68]

Good discussion. I struggle with stuff like this as well. My car is not the average spec model so many would like to believe that every nut and bolt must be perfect and only NOS parts allowed. In truth....the car would never be finished if I were to follow that plan.

So far I have been satisfied with the restoration quality and I think it stacks up well with top level restorers in many aspects. Concourse judging would take some hits here and there I am sure but in the end it is my car and I want to drive it and experience it like when they were new. I think I am pretty darn close.

Many items are very correct....some are close but not quite perfect. If the item is such that it is hard to change later than I spent the extra money and effort to be as correct as possible. If it is something that can more easily be changed after the fact then I used something that looked period correct or was a close substitute. For example....engine is a SR block with real 4 bolt mains, heads are SR duece heads. Valves etc are real and correct for a RAII engine. Intake is correct cast number but date code is too early but I used it anyway. Carb is a SR carb. Distributor is correct for RAI manual trans because I could not find a date code correct RAII unit. If I ever come across more correct parts for a reasonable cost then I can change those easily enough. Until then, the carb and distributor I have will be just fine.

Battery is just a normal top post from the auto parts store with a battery topper cover. Cables are original spring clamp style because I prefer the original look.

I am sure your car will be awesome when you get to drive it. I believe these things are best enjoyed when they can be driven. I probably shouldn't drive mine because of how rare it is....but I forget about that shortly after I back out of the garage and grab a forward gear.

[Greg Reid]

Oops...sorry, not visible in my pics. This is the alternator I'm talking about. Tried to swap a correct cooling fan to it but it's a no-go. Also, eventually will get rid of the red big-bodied HEI but haven't researched what's available yet. Getting rid of the blue spark plug cables also.

['ol Pinion head]

What is the alternator, Greg?
a 79 and later 15 SI alt?

[dataway]

Hey ... is that a 704 carb on there?

That's what I have on mine ... could not pass it up, NOS in the box for $125. Luckily the 68 air cleaner I have is not so nice I wasn't afraid to dill a vent hole in it.

PurelyGTO68, ... jeez, I feel like it's a burden even owning a spec GTO .. can't imagine what it would be like to have something rare. In retrospect ... I kinda wish this was a 68 Lemans with the same personal history ... would be WAY easier making decisions.

[OG68]

Originally Posted by dataway

In retrospect ... I kinda wish this was a 68 Lemans with the same personal history ... would be WAY easier making decisions.

Sometimes I feel that way too. With a numbers matching car I feel everything should be as close to factory as I can make it. My 70 ELCo has a NOM so it was easy to modify the suspension and make the day 2 modifications.

[MUSLCAH]

Originally Posted by Gator67

You can always go with a topper/cover over a battery with correct dimensions and terminals. It's not going to fool anyone who's in the hobby, but it keeps things looking period correct, and blends in better than a new battery for sure. I use toppers and really good AGM batteries in my cars--all of which are correct appearing but are driven. Just peel the label off, paint it black (if necessary), and lay the cover on it. Here's a photo of the bird's engine bay.

Does anyone make a proper looking power steering hose ....without that metal band in the middle....just wondering...

[Greg Reid]

Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head

What is the alternator, Greg?
a 79 and later 15 SI alt?

I have no idea what it is Roger..it was on the car in 2004 when I bought it and refuses to crap out.

Originally Posted by dataway

Hey ... is that a 704 carb on there?

That's what I have on mine ... could not pass it up, NOS in the box for $125. Luckily the 68 air cleaner I have is not so nice I wasn't afraid to dill a vent hole in it.

Yep...7044266...I have another identical one on the bench that I just finished rebuilding. I've seen the one you bought. Great find. I really like that era of q-jet. I have considered disassembling it and sending it out to Cliff or Dick Boneske for a refinish job. If you clean one up really well, you'll lose 90% of the finish.