[mark taylor]

I own a '71 grand prix sj, w/455 & turbo 400 w/shift kit, rear axle ratio is 307
I have spent the last 4 months & $4,000 to stop an overheating problem. The dealership (McClellan Buick)
here in San Diego has time after time told me there is no overheating problem, or deal with it, using a 160 temp
thermostat. Excuses for not being able to fix it (because there is no computer to tell them what is wrong) range
from the car is old (engine has only 60,000) to gear ratio in rear end is over revving the engine (now after 31 Yrs,
it is a problem?) to, the beginning of the week, Piston damage due to history of overheating & customers driving
habits.
They have put in three radiators, two clutch fans, oil pump (my request), valve job, sending unit
double charged me on labor, parts (replace one week, next week replace same parts, charge different price)
The service manager tells me, "...I am over driving,...,driving too fast & hard (80-85mph). I pick up the car, them
telling me it is fixed, they don't bother to inform me, that an exhaust manifold is cracked and due to excessive heat,
crystalized, they can't find manifold, I do, when they have installed manifold, they tell me car is ready, I pick it up, and
another exhaust leak (intake manifold this time), they created an oil leak, and I do know the difference between the
smell of oil and transmission fluid smoke) they don't acknowledge it except to say am I sure I am not smelling transmission
fluid?
the final straw came July 4th, I discovered, when replacing 160 with a superflo 180 (napa) there is oil in the coolant. I pick up
the car three days later, another new radiator, and a notation at bottom of bill, "Piston damage due to history of overheating,
and customer's driving habits"
I have retained a lawyer, because, since the car is over 10 years old, pontiac doesn't offer any assistance.
any and all input will be greatly appreciated
This last week I discovered oil in the cooling system, dealer tells me it's left over residue, from transmission line rupture, I point
out the fact of trany fluid then, this time motor oil, their response, "...it's only a minute amount..."
are there any tests that can be done to check engine block for cracks, and if headgaskets are blown again.
thx
Mark

[ August 09, 2002, 04:10 AM: Message edited by: Mr. 455 SJ ]

[mark taylor]

I own a '71 grand prix sj, w/455 & turbo 400 w/shift kit, rear axle ratio is 307
I have spent the last 4 months & $4,000 to stop an overheating problem. The dealership (McClellan Buick)
here in San Diego has time after time told me there is no overheating problem, or deal with it, using a 160 temp
thermostat. Excuses for not being able to fix it (because there is no computer to tell them what is wrong) range
from the car is old (engine has only 60,000) to gear ratio in rear end is over revving the engine (now after 31 Yrs,
it is a problem?) to, the beginning of the week, Piston damage due to history of overheating & customers driving
habits.
They have put in three radiators, two clutch fans, oil pump (my request), valve job, sending unit
double charged me on labor, parts (replace one week, next week replace same parts, charge different price)
The service manager tells me, "...I am over driving,...,driving too fast & hard (80-85mph). I pick up the car, them
telling me it is fixed, they don't bother to inform me, that an exhaust manifold is cracked and due to excessive heat,
crystalized, they can't find manifold, I do, when they have installed manifold, they tell me car is ready, I pick it up, and
another exhaust leak (intake manifold this time), they created an oil leak, and I do know the difference between the
smell of oil and transmission fluid smoke) they don't acknowledge it except to say am I sure I am not smelling transmission
fluid?
the final straw came July 4th, I discovered, when replacing 160 with a superflo 180 (napa) there is oil in the coolant. I pick up
the car three days later, another new radiator, and a notation at bottom of bill, "Piston damage due to history of overheating,
and customer's driving habits"
I have retained a lawyer, because, since the car is over 10 years old, pontiac doesn't offer any assistance.
any and all input will be greatly appreciated
This last week I discovered oil in the cooling system, dealer tells me it's left over residue, from transmission line rupture, I point
out the fact of trany fluid then, this time motor oil, their response, "...it's only a minute amount..."
are there any tests that can be done to check engine block for cracks, and if headgaskets are blown again.
thx
Mark

[ August 09, 2002, 04:10 AM: Message edited by: Mr. 455 SJ ]

[gtoguy1967]

mark ??? you have to tell us what we are dealing with here you don't say what kind of car,motor,tranmision,gears what year it? i think it sounds as though you are unhappy with this shop. i would look around for another.
Don

[mike nixon]

i'd take the car to another shop, preferable a reputable independent who still works on the older cars, and get a detailed written estimate stating what their opinion of the problem is.

take all of you reciepts with you and have a compression test ran on the car also.

i do have one question, when you took the car in did you request the shop replace certain parts or did you tell them it overheats,and when ?

it sounds to like you have a flow problem but without more info we'll be of no help to you.
mike

[ July 13, 2002, 11:24 PM: Message edited by: mike nixon ]

[kyle_blake]

Ok

MOST CARS have temp gauges so if over heating occurred you would know as temps would rise above approx 220F. Car would start steaming and thus one pulls over. Tows to shop or waits till vehicle cool downs, then drive to shop if possible, then SHOP looks into “OVERHEATED ON HIGHWAY problem on work ORDER”.

Radiator leaking, cap not holding pressure, system flush with new fluid, re-core rad, pressure test etc, double check Haynes manual (or whatever shop manual ) at shop for specific parts used on vehicle (maybe another mechanic choose an incompatible part – wrong thermostat for eg, wrong gears/wrong transmission for driving habits indicated on work order –hence my word HIGHWAY)

Also Shop checks service bulletin’s for vehicles if applicable and or recalls. All dealership should roughly follow this type approach.

I find with older cars that dealerships realize that most mechanics don’t work on those and would recommend you find a local vintage shop to work on your car.

Although over heating isn’t total rocket science in stock applications it appears the shop has been trying to convey that it is you that is doing something they recommended you not do.

In the beginning of my message I noted how your “dealings should of began” with the dealership. If you kept taking it back due to poor workmanship and you being stranded on the highway each time and paying for a tow truck each time then it would be apparent that THEY ARE FAILING TO THEIR JOB.

How would the service manager know your driving 80-85mph? IS that sustainable speed? Did you buy a ¼ mile car with high gears and are driving around for hours and hours when weather is 90 degrees Fahrenheit outside at 4500 rpm when your engine red line is 5000 rpm? I can assume that this isn’t the case.

Why they keep putting new rad’s in I have no idea. You said the shop isn’t informing of you of manifold cracks, so who is then? They are pointing at the gears so I suspect that they should of recommended changing them not band aiding the overheating problem. Treat the problem not the symptom? Let me know.

Personally I have been in a 4 speed car (74 TransAM) with high gears and we went on the highway with rpm’s at 3700 rpm, the engine heated up, friend was dumb enough to keep driving it and boom piston failure, then knocking. IF he had stopped , towed to shop, told them what happened, had THEM REPRODUCE the overheat condition, or dam close or just enough to GET THE IDEA then the problem is clear.

It seems clouded in the this situation. I have had mechanics flat out refuse to work on such problems, they aren’t qualified, don’t know enough or plain and simple have enough other normal cars that they don’t need your business nor headaches.
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