[RocktimusPryme]

I’ll get both eventually. Here in the now, we all operate with a budget and I can’t do both right now.

Which is the better deal by itself. Sub frame connectors or traction bars. For my 67 Bird that is.

I tend to lean towards subframes, but since I did my 8.5 swap with multi leaf conversion I get a clunk under the car every now and then. Especially if the nose it pointed uphill and you goose the throttle from a stop. Can’t figure out what the hell it is but I wonder if it may be axle wrap related.


IF, i cheaped out on the bars some maybe I could do both. I know the cal-tracs are the gold standard, but you pay for them.

I kinda like the look of these as a mid priced alternative. Not as bulky as a traditional slapper bar.


http://www.tractionmaster.com/index.html

Edit: I hate that you can’t edit thread titles. iPad auto correct got me.

[Scott65]

My opinion, frame connectors first. You don't wanna twist your body up. Straps on the front end of the leafs clamping each successive two together will help with axle wrap until you get your traction bars.

[HWYSTR455]

Yes, frame connectors first. And the type of connectors make a diff too, not to mention if you get the 'wrong' type, you may not be able to mount the traction bars.

Traction bars make a diff too. I wouldn't use those fixed pieces, the slider type are much better, and you can adjust the 'hit' with them too.

The global west frame connectors reach all the way back to the structural part of the rear rails, and IMO are the best. And I'm in the 'weld-on' crowd, they work best.

.

[Scott65]

Agreed on the weld on part. And it's cheaper too, if you can do it yourself. And if you're willing to notch the floor, they get even a little stronger welded into the floor pan as well.

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by Scott65

Agreed on the weld on part. And it's cheaper too, if you can do it yourself. And if you're willing to notch the floor, they get even a little stronger welded into the floor pan as well.

I was mostly looking at bolt on, because you can also decide to weld them if you want. Price didn't really seem to change much when looking at them. Im not anti weld, but I wasn't sure how much the permanent welding would affect future maintenance. If something breaks am I going to have to Sawzall my connectors to get to it.

I definitely don't want to cut into the floor pan.

What are the more effective kind?

I was looking at the mid priced tubular ones from Alshton I think was the name. $220 on summit. The global west arms look the same for $30 more. The Summit branded and Competition engineering ones are square tube, cheaper, actually look stronger to me but are uglier.

[Scott65]

I defer to others on bolt in. I've only used 2×3 rectangular tubing, welded.

[Lee]

I had the Southside Machine type bars on my Firebird. They worked REALLY well! But it also rode like crap, and I suspect they were the cause of that as well.

[ta man]

I've used bolt in CE frame connectors on a couple cars over the years. I also add a bead of weld on each side where they slide into the subframe. The first car I did was a 1980 Trans Am with t roofs..you could feel the difference immediately driving and launching the car.

[ponyakr]

For the traction bars, if price is a big factor, there are several cheap options. One way is to just clamp a section of spring leaf to the entire front section of the springs.

On our first '68 Bird drag car, I just made some slappers by welding some square tubing to the stock shock plates, & buying some rubber snubbers for the front. Worked OK for that & our mid 12-sec bracket Bird. TJ won LOTS of races with 'em. Not near as good as Cal-Tracs. But, cars have gone much quicker than we did, using slappers.

https://www.musclecardiy.com/perform...n-leaf-spring/

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme

...Im not anti weld, but I wasn't sure how much the permanent welding would affect future maintenance. If something breaks am I going to have to Sawzall my connectors to get to it.
.

There's nothing there that would prevent you from doing any repairs if you weld, unless of course you want to drop the front subframe.

When you strap an extra leaf on the front half of the leaf, it will make it bind, and turn into a buck board. The better approach is to purchase performance leafs that have the second leaf that partially wraps the front eye. In that case, you don't need additional traction devices unless you specifically order softer rates.

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[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by ta man

I've used bolt in CE frame connectors on a couple cars over the years. I also add a bead of weld on each side where they slide into the subframe. The first car I did was a 1980 Trans Am with t roofs..you could feel the difference immediately driving and launching the car.

So those worked pretty well huh? That is interesting becase they are cheaper than the ones I was thinking about.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/a...model/firebird

For reference those are the ones I was considering. I feel like the tubular arm would just give more clearance everywhere.

As far as the traction bars, my general thought was if I bought a cheap set, hell even the Summit braded ones that are $40. Those are an easy on, off item that you can upgrade at any given time. And probably even resell, especially if you went with a mid priced model like the ones I linked earlier to put towards a set of Cal-tracs. Throw em on the old FB Marketplace and maybe get $80 back out of them.

Where as with the connectors I would prefer to put those on and then leave them.

CPP makes a set that look like a straight ripoff of cal tracs but they are still $300. If they were $150 I would consider them, but for that I would just buy the real deal.

As an aside I do know that I have one of my front subframe ends is bent inwards. Who knows what happened, a jack mishap in 1978 for all I know. But Im wondering what kind of heating, cutting, or banging to get that metal back into the shape it needs to be to slide the subframe connector into the rail for install.

[JLMounce]

I actually like the Chassis Works subframe connectors. They allow for weld in stiffness while still allowing the subframe to be removed. Because they slid into the front frame, they also don't further reduce ground clearance, nor do they add a protrusion can can get whacked by speed humps etc.

If you start getting crazy with power and sticky tires, you can add the g-connector kit to the existing connectors to further stiffen the chassis and also mount a DSS loop.

https://www.cachassisworks.com/p-310...r-bolt-in.aspx

These are a bit more on the pricey side however.

[RAIV55]

If you are having issues like wheel hop, go traction bars first. Slapper bars although crude would be a good first move. Subframe connectors, to be effective need to be welded, otherwise the bolt holes will eventually elongate and the advantage will be lost. If going to connectors you should install solid body bushings on the front subframe.

[Scott65]

Knowing someone personally who popped the glass out on a 67 fbody, I would have to say you're better off WITHOUT traction, until you get some type of frame connectors. As mentioned, welded, with solid body bushings is best. A dead hook with 600 ft/lbs and no connectors is worst. Just my 2 cents.

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by Scott65

Knowing someone personally who popped the glass out on a 67 fbody, I would have to say you're better off WITHOUT traction, until you get some type of frame connectors. As mentioned, welded, with solid body bushings is best. A dead hook with 600 ft/lbs and no connectors is worst. Just my 2 cents.

Yeah, I have a separate thread in the 67 section asking about drag radial sizes. So that's the general direction we are going. But Ive heard horror stories about rippling your sheet metal on a hard hook with no subframe device.

I am in general agreement with you guys that the subframe is more important. And probably the direction I go. This weekend I will evaluate how to straighten out that bent section of subframe I mentioned. Then maybe I buy a budget solution on traction bar until down the road. I also looked at a bunch of the leaf clips as mentioned earlier. Just add a few more of those.

The only reason I posed the question is because of the clunk i mentioned. Im about to mount a Go-pro under my car so I can figure out what the hell it is. Ive been under it and checked everything for tightness. No idea. My lead suspect is the driveshaft hitting the X pipe. But from inside it feels like something hitting the floorboard. Never happened before the new spring and rear swap.

[Skip Fix]

http://www.pro-touringf-body.com/cha...omponents.html
Decent bolt ins for my second gen.

You can always copy a Mopar Super Stock spring. Second leaf all the way to the spring eye and clamp the first two spring leafs. Heck the old first gen GM Pro Stock cars were basically just using slapper bars, Mopars a pinions snubber and S springs..

[Scott65]

Since you mentioned a conversion, is whatever is used for locating the axle to the leaf still functioning after the differential and spring swap? It's been too long since I had an fbody, but either the axle tube pad or the lower pad is supposed to have a pin or something to positively locate the assembly together. Make sure that's as it should be. Spring bushing/bolt to eye slop can allow unwanted movement and clunking. Hopefully you'll get some responses from the folks that are more current on the fbody stuff than i am... Maybe start a separate thread only dealing with that issue. If you're luckier than me, it'll be the x pipe you mentioned and not something hard to find.

[92GTA]

On my 69 Firebird I went with Hotchkis SFCS, which can be bolted and welded. I used the Global West 0.5" drop solid body mounts. I am running the Hotchkis rear leafs (with Global West spherical bushings) and the low profile Cal Tracs. All of these parts play nice together. When I'm not at the drag strip, I keep the CalTracs loose so they won't interfere with corner handling (I have full Hotchkis everything else).

You must do the SFCs first, that's literally like the first mod anyone should do on ANY 67-02 F-Body.

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by Scott65

Since you mentioned a conversion, is whatever is used for locating the axle to the leaf still functioning after the differential and spring swap? It's been too long since I had an fbody, but either the axle tube pad or the lower pad is supposed to have a pin or something to positively locate the assembly together. Make sure that's as it should be. Spring bushing/bolt to eye slop can allow unwanted movement and clunking. Hopefully you'll get some responses from the folks that are more current on the fbody stuff than i am... Maybe start a separate thread only dealing with that issue. If you're luckier than me, it'll be the x pipe you mentioned and not something hard to find.

I plan to if I cant figure it out. Its an xbody rear which is a common direct swap. Just shortens the axles some. But my xpipe was built with saggy springs and a shorter rear end yoke. So with the longer 8.5 yoke and proper heigh springs, Im wondering if I hit the x pipe in certain circumstances. There shouldn't be any funny business since its all factory style parts.

The only real "conversion" is the mono to multi. I used a Detroit kit for that.

Its really intermittent. The only way to reliably produce it is to put yourself on a hill at a stop, and then bump the throttle. It didn't even do it on the strip when I launched it pretty hard for street tires. I had a 1.9 60'. My only accomplishment on the day.

It did it more right after the swap. Which makes me think more and more that its a factor of the new spring height. As they have settled some its more intermittent. Makes sense on paper anyway.

[Scott65]

You say it has a longer pinion yoke? Check driveshaft length with current set up at ride height. Make sure you're not bottoming out the trans yoke up front.