#21  
Old 11-18-2020, 03:45 AM
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What usually happens with a separator right at the tank outlet ..

1. Compressor not used much .. most vapor condenses in the tank, water droplets never make it to the separator, so very little water shows up at the separator.

2. Compressor has long run times .. tank air becomes hot and humid ... separators only remove droplets, not vapor, so very little water caught. Vapor then condenses in the air line to the sand blaster and you have water at the nozzle.

The air from the compressor head outlet will start to condense the water out at the first cool spot it meets, as the compressor continues to run that cools spot moves farther down the line as hot compressed air slowly heats up the piping system. For the typical user the storage tank is the first cool spot, so that's where most of the water collects. With long run times even the tank can get warmed up, so it starts passing vapor to the tank outlet, which will then condense at the next coolest spot ... this is usually where most people have their separators. With enough run time it will even pass vapor though those separators and into the line without a desiccating filter/dryer.

The big wall mounted copper condensers work well because they are at the end of the line, no matter how much vapor gets passed everything else on a hot compressor it will mostly like condense in that copper before it gets to the point of use.

A forced air Aftercooler is the same principle except it cools the air down all the way BEFORE going into the tank. Either one accomplishes the same thing, I prefer the aftercooler because of it's compact size and it helps keep compressor temps down and reduces potential rust in the tank. But either way you'll have to drain the same amount of water, just in a different locations.

For a permanent shop air installation, and if you have the wall space (which I don't), the wall mounted system produces the same quality of air.

Put your final filter, regulator etc. at the END of the copper piping, helps keeps the regulator and paper/desiccant filters alive longer since they will live in a dryer environment.


Last edited by dataway; 11-18-2020 at 03:53 AM.
  #22  
Old 11-18-2020, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dataway View Post
Let see if this works here are some pics I just took. Rolled that baby right out of the corner for them.

Probably not suitable for professional painting without an additional filter/dryer, but so far with the painting I've done not a single tiny bit of water or oil.

Air deflector on the top directs the air from the fan through the cooler and then onto the small factory intercooler and compressor heads ... in addition to the very lame pulley fan that came on the compressor.

Outlet from tank to the last separator filter is not ideal, shouldn't have the big loop hanging down, should provide a nice incline instead. Spur of the moment thing to get the compressor up and running and I was out of the proper flair fitting adapters.

I should have made the wheels with a bit wider stance, can be a bit tipsy if you build up speed and hit something on the floor.

An added benefit of the aftercooler is better compressor efficiency since you are filling the tank up with cool air at pressure, rather than hot air at pressure that will cool down and lose pressure (energy). The hot setup would be a really good Intercooler (between the stages) this can dramatically increase compressor efficiency as the high pressure stage is fed dense cool air instead of expanded hot air. For some reason the compressor was noticeably quieter when I added the after cooler, I'm guessing the air contracting as it cools absorbs the shock wave coming from the outlet of the high pressure second stage.

It can run for 20 minutes and you can wrap you hand right around the inlet to the tank, haven't felt anything over room temperature yet.


[IMG][/IMG]

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[IMG][/IMG]

What size copper tubing?
Did you sweat on compression fittings?
OR are they flared?

  #23  
Old 11-19-2020, 03:33 AM
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I used 5/8 tubing to match the original fittings on the compressor.

All the fittings are flared, some single, some double depending on what fittings. I wanted to use as many of the original fittings as possible, some of them were double flared.

Tubing is refrigeration tubing.

Almost all of the threads are 1/2 NPT.

The IR compressor has been perfect so far ... but if I had it to do over again might have gone with a Quincy or similar one step up in quality. I haven't replaced the pressure switch yet but it's pretty much a POS. Original tank drain was a POS. Factory cooling fan (built into the compressor head pulley) was marginal at best, and the cooler you can keep those compressor cylinders the longer it will last.

Compressor head is acceptable quality for the price, as is the motor. The intercooler makes life way easier for the motor since it has a larger depressurized volume to pump into before coming up to speed. Where as in OEM form it's just got about 1 foot of 5/8 tube.

I HIGHLY recommend the Parker regulator, a bit pricey but absolutely spot on, easy to adjust, US made quality piece.

Would have liked to build a proper intercooler for it instead of the single finned tube factory part. Looked everywhere for finned tubing that wasn't astronomically priced but couldn't find any. I figure the extra fan increases the efficiency about 100% compared to the useless factory fan, so I can live with it.

The who shebang added about $600 to the cost of the compressor. But if a person was replacing an existing compressor they'd probably have a lot of it already.

  #24  
Old 11-19-2020, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dataway View Post
I used 5/8 tubing to match the original fittings on the compressor.

All the fittings are flared, some single, some double depending on what fittings. I wanted to use as many of the original fittings as possible, some of them were double flared.

Tubing is refrigeration tubing.

Almost all of the threads are 1/2 NPT.

The IR compressor has been perfect so far ... but if I had it to do over again might have gone with a Quincy or similar one step up in quality. I haven't replaced the pressure switch yet but it's pretty much a POS. Original tank drain was a POS. Factory cooling fan (built into the compressor head pulley) was marginal at best, and the cooler you can keep those compressor cylinders the longer it will last.

Compressor head is acceptable quality for the price, as is the motor. The intercooler makes life way easier for the motor since it has a larger depressurized volume to pump into before coming up to speed. Where as in OEM form it's just got about 1 foot of 5/8 tube.

I HIGHLY recommend the Parker regulator, a bit pricey but absolutely spot on, easy to adjust, US made quality piece.

Would have liked to build a proper intercooler for it instead of the single finned tube factory part. Looked everywhere for finned tubing that wasn't astronomically priced but couldn't find any. I figure the extra fan increases the efficiency about 100% compared to the useless factory fan, so I can live with it.

The who shebang added about $600 to the cost of the compressor. But if a person was replacing an existing compressor they'd probably have a lot of it already.

Do you know the approximate size of the trans cooler?


I see some trans cooler have -6 or -8, do you think the back side of the AN fitting is NPT?

  #25  
Old 11-20-2020, 06:34 AM
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Used a Hayden 1268

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hda-1268

https://www.haydenauto.com/media/547...dual-pages.pdf

Actually it's a truck oil cooler (picture is wrong ... see the size specs for actual size)

It has 3/4" NPT female fittings ... one of the reasons I used that line of cooler, with the NPT threads I could adapt anything I wanted. I found the pressure specs and the working pressure limit was 300 psi. They are commonly used by people building compressor after coolers. I'd make sure you have 18" or so of copper line between the compressor head outlet and the inlet of the cooler. Air coming out of the compressor head is VERY hot, 18" or so of copper will reduce the temps to a more reasonable level before it gets to the cooler.


Last edited by dataway; 11-20-2020 at 06:44 AM.
  #26  
Old 11-20-2020, 05:44 PM
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Dataway, that's just awesome. Giving me ideas.

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  #27  
Old 11-20-2020, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dataway View Post
Used a Hayden 1268

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hda-1268

https://www.haydenauto.com/media/547...dual-pages.pdf

Actually it's a truck oil cooler (picture is wrong ... see the size specs for actual size)

It has 3/4" NPT female fittings ... one of the reasons I used that line of cooler, with the NPT threads I could adapt anything I wanted. I found the pressure specs and the working pressure limit was 300 psi. They are commonly used by people building compressor after coolers. I'd make sure you have 18" or so of copper line between the compressor head outlet and the inlet of the cooler. Air coming out of the compressor head is VERY hot, 18" or so of copper will reduce the temps to a more reasonable level before it gets to the cooler.

Wow that is much smaller than I thought.

  #28  
Old 11-20-2020, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dataway View Post
I used 5/8 tubing to match the original fittings on the compressor.

All the fittings are flared, some single, some double depending on what fittings. I wanted to use as many of the original fittings as possible, some of them were double flared.

Tubing is refrigeration tubing.

Almost all of the threads are 1/2 NPT.

The IR compressor has been perfect so far ... but if I had it to do over again might have gone with a Quincy or similar one step up in quality. I haven't replaced the pressure switch yet but it's pretty much a POS. Original tank drain was a POS. Factory cooling fan (built into the compressor head pulley) was marginal at best, and the cooler you can keep those compressor cylinders the longer it will last.

Compressor head is acceptable quality for the price, as is the motor. The intercooler makes life way easier for the motor since it has a larger depressurized volume to pump into before coming up to speed. Where as in OEM form it's just got about 1 foot of 5/8 tube.

I HIGHLY recommend the Parker regulator, a bit pricey but absolutely spot on, easy to adjust, US made quality piece.

Would have liked to build a proper intercooler for it instead of the single finned tube factory part. Looked everywhere for finned tubing that wasn't astronomically priced but couldn't find any. I figure the extra fan increases the efficiency about 100% compared to the useless factory fan, so I can live with it.

The who shebang added about $600 to the cost of the compressor. But if a person was replacing an existing compressor they'd probably have a lot of it already.
I see you have the Motor Guard air filter, that company originally made those units to be used as by pass oil filters, that housed a TP roll similar to the Frantz filters. If you ever need a new filter in a pinch, I believe they still accept TP rolls, unless they have changed the measurements internally.

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  #29  
Old 11-21-2020, 05:46 AM
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I've heard that ... but been afraid to try it Yes the current "cartridge" looks like a roll of toilet paper.

Do you think I need anything besides a gun filter after that Motor Guard to do painting? I'm getting pretty much zero oil/water at the outlet before the Motor Guard.

  #30  
Old 11-21-2020, 12:21 PM
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The TP filters down to less than 5 microns, at that size you can't see particulate with your naked eye. A human hair is about 70-80, microns I'd say you're pretty safe.

The TP filter will hold roughly 8 ounces of water, these are what make the TP such a great oil filter, and it transfers directly to filtering air too. As is obvious the Motor Guard owners just repurposed their oil filter to possibly sell more units and have a larger customer base.

They do not sell any of their oil filter units any longer, and try discourage people from using their units as by pass oil filters. One guy was buying the air units and converting them back to by pass oil filters. He got a cease and desist order from their legal department to stop selling the converted units. Evidently they no longer want to be tied to their previous use as by pass oil filters.

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Last edited by Sirrotica; 11-21-2020 at 12:29 PM.
  #31  
Old 11-22-2020, 08:06 AM
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Wow that is much smaller than I thought.
The 1268 unit is about 12" x 18", the picture they show at Summit is wrong.

With a fan mounted on it, it does an amazing job. Some people don't worry about the extra fan and just depend on the compressor pulley fan. I figured $70 for the extra fan was easy enough.

Used this one:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

There are probably cheaper units out there, but this one seemed kind of heavy duty. Although I did have to make some modifications to blade and cage to get it to fit. I probably should have removed the stand and just zip tied the entire thing to the compressor belt guard.

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  #32  
Old 11-22-2020, 08:11 AM
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Sirrotica, that makes a lot of sense ... the people using them for air, their only complaint is corrosion of the aluminum case from moisture .... if used as originally intended for oil, the corrosion would not have been an issue.

I'm removing about 95% of the moisture before it gets to the MotorGuard so I expect to get a long life from it, specially since I only use that outlet for painting and the plasma torch.

  #33  
Old 11-22-2020, 11:53 AM
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Again, great info.

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