FAQ |
Members List |
Social Groups |
Calendar |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#161
|
|||
|
|||
Wrap your head around this. My 350 HO shows 450 hp on the Moroso speed power calculator. The heads flow 200 c.f.m . Of course that's Stock and not SS. My head was the one poured by NHRA for the spec on their website for the 18 head.
|
#162
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Thanks, Stan
__________________
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm |
#163
|
|||
|
|||
Shifting @ 6300 cross the finish line @ 6900. Haven't had it on the dyno yet so I don't know where it peaks. Hope to do that this summer.
|
#164
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
If I remember correctly, he ran high 10's with that engine, in his '68 Bird. I wonder how much power is possible with that same 200cfm flow, for a 400, a 428, or a 455 engine, with the correct cam for head flow & engine used ? Also the heads used on the larger 4-barrel engines would have bigger valves, or at least bigger intake valves. I'm just ASSUMING that if those heads would make 450hp, on a 350, with a low lift Stocker cam, they would have to make more than 450hp on a larger cube engine, with a bigger cam, wouldn't they ? OR, would the 200cfm flow actually limit the power of the larger cube engines, so that they couldn't make any more power than the 350 ? I have all these questions because I really don't have a clue. Exactly how much torque & hp can be made with a 400, 428, & 455 engine, with heads that flow 200cfm, 210cfm, 220 cfm. I'd love to have the money to do all the dyno testing to find out, for sure. Anybody here have a Pontiac engine that made over 450hp, with unported D-port iron heads ? Not counting the Stock Elim cars. Len Williams estimates that his 6X head 455 will make aprox 425hp. That's with unported heads, and at aprox 9.25 pump gas CR. It has Rhoads lifters & what i assume is probably an 041 clone cam, like maybe a Melling SPC-8. http://lenwilliamsautomachine.com/455_Long_Block.html If that estimate is pretty close, then, with the correct drag only cam, it should easily make over 450hp. How much over, I don't know. Last edited by ponyakr; 02-22-2020 at 02:23 PM. |
#165
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Stan
__________________
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm |
#166
|
|||
|
|||
My 400 heads flow more than that.
|
#167
|
|||
|
|||
Yes, it's a stick car. The minimum weight is 3220 but I can only get it down to 3300,so I'm 80 lbs heavy for E/S. Here's the best run last year. Going to try another set of headers and I found something in the oil pan so I'm hoping for a little more this year.
|
#168
|
||||
|
||||
Found his chart compiled by Air Flow Research.
It says that 200cfm flow will only support 411.4 hp, and that 250cfm flow will support 514.3 hp. https://www.hotrod.com/articles/airf...ylinder-power/ Don't have a clue how this might apply to Pontiac engines, or if it would, at all. Another rule of thumb, ball park, figure I saw posted was that hp potential is aprox 2 times the flow. So 200cfm flow would support 400hp. 250cfm flow would support 500hp. Many say an engine is just a air pump. So, power potential depends on how much air you can pump thru it. But, all this doesn't answer all my specific questions about the power potential of the particular Pontiac engines in question, in legal SS form. Most, or at east many of those may never be answered. But, at least I'm searchin for the answers. Last edited by ponyakr; 02-22-2020 at 03:30 PM. |
#169
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Stan
__________________
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm |
#170
|
|||
|
|||
Someone got NHRA to take 15 hp of the 350 back in 2008. I thought it would be fun to try something nobody had really run before. It's fun motor with the 4 sp. I ran it with the 400 headers so this year I'm going to have some built just for the 350 and go to the dyno. Hoping for another tenth out of it,it'll never run as fast as the 350 Chevys in the same class,they're rated at 295 hp. Someone else is building one but it's going to be an automatic car.
Most of the time I run the 400. |
#171
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Stan
__________________
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm |
#172
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
|
#173
|
||||
|
||||
I saw that. Just figured with how old I am that was this new math I keep hearing about.
Stan
__________________
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm |
#174
|
||||
|
||||
VERY funny guys ! 1st mistake I ever made.
Let's see 4.250 - 4.229 = .021 Is that correct ? Just out of curiosity, how much less power would the .021 shorter stroke engine make than the longer stroke engine ? Another way to say it is: How much of a power difference would that .021 stroke difference make ? Ya'll have any computer programs or rule of thumb calculations to figure that ? |
#175
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm |
#176
|
||||
|
||||
ponyakr,
This thread is going nowhere and yet has been all over the place. Stop posting all kinds of links to different engine specs and engine builds. Pick one engine Check what bodes it was offered in and pick one See what SS class it will race We now know what it has to weight and from the class index can guesstimate the HP needed to run .15 under the index. We can now look to see what it will take to build that HP from the engine that was chosen. Also once there is a given set of spec, maybe other will have some ideas to add. Stan
__________________
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm |
#177
|
||||
|
||||
"...Pick one engine..."
If I pick one engine, there will be others who say, it'll be easier with some other engine. I personally think there are several engines that could possibly be built to run the index or slightly better, without gigantic mega-bucks. And I posted a list of those. But, if you wanna focus in on just one at a time, lets 1st go with the 1977 180hp 400, with 6X heads. 285hp factor in SS. 289hp factor in GT/auto trans. http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...4&MAKE=Pontiac Not interested in the super high dollar heads & super huge roller cams & valve spring pressures needed to run really quick. Just trying to find a low buck recipe to make enuff power to run the index. Sorry, don't know how to say it any simpler than that. |
#178
|
||||
|
||||
Found a link to a list of NHRA national event winners, up thru 2000. As time goes by, I'll post some of the Pontiac powered cars that got either a win or RU, both here & on the Stocker thread. Or, for those who prefer to do it yourself, here's the link.
http://www.nhra.net/50th/resultslist.html The 1st SS win I noticed was in '75. Don't know how accurate these records are. They show that Jack Mullins won 3 events & was RU @ another. I knew about 2 of the wins, but not the other. http://www.nhra.net/50th/results.asp?mYear=1975 The '76 list shows a win & 2 RU's for Jack. http://www.nhra.net/50th/results.asp?mYear=1976 Last edited by ponyakr; 02-24-2020 at 04:31 PM. |
#179
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
here are the indexes https://www.nhra.com/stats/14-mile-i...ock-eliminator The pdf shows the weight brakes for Super Stock and GT. One we have a class we will know the index, be able to calculate the weight and then estimate min need HP. Stan
__________________
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm |
#180
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
OK, then in order to get by with 9" tires & Stocker type suspension, lets go with a heavier car. There are several '77 Pontiacs, with an NHRA weight of around 4000lbs. So, you could pic any of those, since they'll allow you to add & remove some weight, to better fit a class. Let's use a 14lb/hp class. 14 x 285hp = 3990lbs. Add 170lbs for driver. Min weight is 4160lbs. In reg SS, the 14lb/hp class is M. With an auto trans, the SS/MA index is 11.85. http://www.classracerinfo.com/NHRA_Classes.aspx So, the car will need to go at least 11.85. 11.75 would be safer, but not absolutely necessary. So, there you have it. The objective is to see if this engine can be built to legal NHRA SS specs, making enuff power to run 11.85, at 4160lbs. But, the trick is to do it WITHOUT the mega buck heads & huge cam & springs that have been mentioned. Keep in mind, the car can have a lightened, tricked out TH350, with trans brake & a 2.75 1st gear, a GOOD racing converter for the app, and whatever rear gear is needed. If for any reason you don't wanna figure using a heavy car, then go with the lightest '77 Bird. Whatever. The '77 Birds have an NHRA weight of around 3500lbs. So, you could run the 12lb/hp class & the wight would be 12 x 285 =3420 + 170 =3690. That's almost 500 lbs lighter. That would be SS/KA, with an 11.25 index. So, the lighter car would need to go .6 quicker, in order to be just as competitive as the heavier car. At least that's what I figured. As we've all seen, I could be wrong on any of my numbers or calculations. http://www.classracerinfo.com/NHRA_Classes.aspx Last edited by ponyakr; 02-24-2020 at 05:57 PM. |
Reply |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|