#141  
Old 02-17-2020, 10:17 AM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
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One of the things that's really cool to see in most of these pics are the stands. They are packed to the max. Standing room only. Not typical of today.

  #142  
Old 02-17-2020, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdbob View Post
I wrote a letter to NED DIV1,NHRA in mid 70s to find out what hood was legal for a 73 SD Formula. Basically I remember they didnt know except to use the RA Formula hood. I know John Herslow ran a Formula hood initially. Just more 'info' about the times. When I ordered my SD TA the one dealer salesman helped me with specing a Formula SD because I didnt think I could afford the TA. Anyway the salesman priced the RA Formula hood,still have prices, now we know this wasnt correct.
ALL the SD455 Formy cars I've ever seen in competition had a T/A hood & scoop, but no wheel flares or spoilers of any kind, and no T/A fender vents.

The scoops had SD455 decals on 'em. Have never seen SD455 decals on the scoops of the FG Formy hoods.

BUT, you never know about NHRA rules, & what they might allow NOW. Under 1973 SD455 Ram Air engine, they show it legal in a Formy, T/A, Lemans, GTO, & GA models.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2081

So, exactly what kind of Ram Air system would be required, I have no idea. And I doubt any of the current NHRA tech guys know either.

I think I've mentioned that several Pontiacs I've seen, in recent years, do not have the correct body parts, but have passed tech at lots of races & have won a few big races.

So, who really knows what you could get by with, if claiming an SD455 Formy ?


Last edited by ponyakr; 02-17-2020 at 02:13 PM.
  #143  
Old 02-18-2020, 03:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgarblik View Post
... the stands. They are packed...
Mike- When I attended the Indy Nationals in '61, '62, & '63 the whole facility was packed, not just the stands!

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  #144  
Old 02-18-2020, 08:43 AM
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Would fender vents be classified as ' minor customization '? Would the formula hood take weight off the front end? I guess the Formula ram air would be the tubes from air cleaner too hood(never saw system in person). Just talking . I like the old stocker rules although the new stockers sure are fast and hold your attention albeit at considerable more investment.

  #145  
Old 02-18-2020, 09:58 AM
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"...Would the formula hood take weight off the front end?..."

Think I've read that the twin-scoop Formy hood was actually heavier. IIRC, I had 3 of those hoods on my shop in the '70's-'80's time period. I do remember that they were NOT light.
.

" Would fender vents be classified as ' minor customization '?..."

I have no idea what NHRA would call it. I only know what I see in pics of Stockers that have run in modern times. Several cars have gone to & some have won multiple div & nat events, in Pontiacs with body parts that were not as factory produced.

I think I've already mentioned the '72 T/A with no front spoiler or wheel flares, the Formy running as a '73, but with the '71 fender vents, & the car with no front turn signal lamps.

I honestly don't care if NHRA lets this stuff go. How much ET difference would these small details make ? But, I can assure you that some of the NHRA techs, in the old days, would not have let cars run with these minor infractions.
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Last edited by ponyakr; 02-18-2020 at 10:22 AM.
  #146  
Old 02-18-2020, 10:59 AM
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I agree talking to guys who ran regularly seems rules were slanted but I'm paranoid.

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Old 02-18-2020, 12:46 PM
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Got a few more pics to add. This post will show a '65 GTO & 4 different '66 GTO's. The last 2 are famous.
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  #148  
Old 02-18-2020, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponyakr View Post
"...Would the formula hood take weight off the front end?..."

Think I've read that the twin-scoop Formy hood was actually heavier. IIRC, I had 3 of those hoods on my shop in the '70's-'80's time period. I do remember that they were NOT light.
.

" Would fender vents be classified as ' minor customization '?..."

I have no idea what NHRA would call it. I only know what I see in pics of Stockers that have run in modern times. Several cars have gone to & some have won multiple div & nat events, in Pontiacs with body parts that were not as factory produced.

I think I've already mentioned the '72 T/A with no front spoiler or wheel flares, the Formy running as a '73, but with the '71 fender vents, & the car with no front turn signal lamps.

I honestly don't care if NHRA lets this stuff go. How much ET difference would these small details make ? But, I can assure you that some of the NHRA techs, in the old days, would not have let cars run with these minor infractions.
It does not matter if it is 0.001 of a second or 1 second illegal is illegal. What has happened is NHRA has gotten cheap and so the few tech staff they now have only have the time to can check for major things.

Stan

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  #149  
Old 02-18-2020, 01:09 PM
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Here's a '67 GTO, a '71 455 T-37, & 3 '69 GTO's.

The last GTO shows one of the available colors for the later '69 Judge. When I ordered my '69, orange was the only color available for the Judge. Mine was silver, but not a Judge, as is shown in the last pic here.
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  #150  
Old 02-18-2020, 01:32 PM
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Here's some 1st gen pics.

The 1st 2 are '67's. The next one is Roy & Mike McKinney's '68. I assume it's the car they bought from Truman Fields in '77, but with a new paint job. Not certain.

The last 2 are just 2 of the paint schemes Truman Fields used, after selling his original '68. Don't know, for sure, how many different looks he may have used, over the years, OR how many different '68 Birds he may have raced. May have only raced 2. I can't say. I have seen everything from A/S to E/S on his '68 Birds.
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  #151  
Old 02-18-2020, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan Weiss View Post
It does not matter if it is 0.001 of a second or 1 second illegal is illegal. What has happened is NHRA has gotten cheap and so the few tech staff they now have only have the time to can check for major things.

Stan
Yeah, that's the way a LOT of Stock racers are. I ask over on the Class Racer site, if they'd protest me if they knew my rear end was an inch short, & that was absolutely the only thing wrong with it.

They said that if they knew it, they'd point it out to the tech guy, and if he let it go they'd protest me, & do everything they could to see that I was not allowed to race, that day or at any race where the rear end was an inch short.

That's the kind of people we're dealing with here. I'm not makin this stuff up. I can post quotes of those guys saying those things. AND, let me be VERY clear ! I know there are a few guys who post here who currently race class cars. I am NOT saying that EVERY single Stock class racer is this hard nosed about it. But, I have experienced FIRST HAND that SOME ARE !

If anybody reading this is really a nice guy & would let my 1 inch short rear end slide, GREAT. If NOT, that's fine too. I have no quarrel with ANY class racer. And I don't have the funds to buy or build a class car. So, the situation mentioned was strictly a hypothetical, "what if ?".

BUT, if I should happen to win a big lottery & buy or build a Stocker, after what I've learned about class racers, I'd spare no expense to make absolutely sure my car would pass tech, under the rules which applied at the time, & those unwritten rules which the quick guys & Stocker engine builders know to exist.

If, for some reason my car failed tech, it would not be my mistake. And I'd take steps to correct it.

But, as stated, there are quite a few things that seem to slide by, on some of these popular cars. I assume it may be who you know, that might determine whether an old established racer would protest or report a rules violation to NHRA. Just as an example: I can't see the Stock RU of a nat event, which Randi Lyn Shipp won, protesting her car for some minor body part infraction. She's won several big nat events & div races, with the same car, & passed tech at every one.

BUT, some of those same guys would probably protest me, because I'm a nobody.

Yeah, like a lot of other sports, there are clicks & clans & all sorts of politics & personalities involved. But, I still like to talk about the cars & the racing.

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Old 02-18-2020, 02:32 PM
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I know that the inch shorter rear end was just an example. But let's say I have the same car. We both weight the same. I have the correct length rear end. Chances are my rear end weights a small amount more than yours. That means that I a small amount more unsprung weight than you do and you have a small amount more sprung weight than I do. Is there a performance advantage?

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  #153  
Old 02-18-2020, 02:33 PM
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Here's a change of pace. It's a 1973 Pontiac 4-door heavyweight. These are the only pics I've ever seen of this car.

It was named the "Tijuana Taxi". It ran T/SA. Had Vaughn / Marvosh on the front doors. Driven by Dave Marvosh.

Don't know what engine that would have been. But, it won a race at Columbus, with a 16.56 @ 70.69 mph.

Also was featured in a Motor Wheels ad.

With a magnifying glass, I think I can read "National Record Holder 1974", on the roof. Not sure. Anybody have more info/pics for this car ?
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  #154  
Old 02-18-2020, 02:41 PM
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Have run across several nat record lists from the old days.

In '75, Mick Leiferman held the G/SA record with his '71 GTO. His name was spelled Mike, on the list.

Charlene Wood held the I/SA record, with the Tons-A-Fun '72 Lemans wagon. Her name was spelled Sharleen, on the list.

http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=75477
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  #155  
Old 02-18-2020, 02:51 PM
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Names & paint jobs on drag cars have always been interesting, to me.

Here's a 007 Pontiac. Wonder how many cars used that name, back when the James Bond movies 1st got popular ?

I've mentioned the Acre Maker cars, which the Moore family raced. I think the Dad, Roland Moore, was driving the big car when the Indy pic was taken.

Then we have a big Pontiac with a red/white, candy-stripe top.

And, of course, a tiger stripe. Assume it was orange.

I assume that back in the late '60's & '70's there were quite a few psychedelic paint jobs.

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...w=1366&bih=609
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Last edited by ponyakr; 02-18-2020 at 03:09 PM.
  #156  
Old 02-18-2020, 03:18 PM
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In '68, Pontiacs held records in C/S, F/S, C/SA, & G/SA.

http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...20&postcount=1
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Last edited by ponyakr; 02-18-2020 at 03:28 PM.
  #157  
Old 02-18-2020, 05:30 PM
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I know for a fact a 73 Firebird was protested because of the front bars that go from fender to core support. 73s were thicker than 74s. NHRA used a magnet to check if they were steel. Regular stocker guy told me Certain cars had adjustable weights that slide in frame. At weigh in, weight would be front then slide to rear afterwar0ds. Checking weight bias.

  #158  
Old 02-18-2020, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdbob View Post
I know for a fact a 73 Firebird was protested because of the front bars that go from fender to core support. 73s were thicker than 74s. NHRA used a magnet to check if they were steel. Regular stocker guy told me Certain cars had adjustable weights that slide in frame. At weigh in, weight would be front then slide to rear afterwar0ds. Checking weight bias.
Yeah, as long as class racing has been around, I suppose just about every possible trick has been tried, to try & get an advantage over the competition.

One of the real sharp techs, that could spot a lot of these tricks, & most anything not legal on a car, lives about 50 miles from me. His name is Wesley. Lots of long time class racers know who Wesley is. I assume he did all the div 4 races, for years, as well as probably quite a few nat events. I suppose he was an NHRA employee, & was used where needed.

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Old 02-18-2020, 07:26 PM
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I believe that Wesley also handled tech for the "Engine Masters" dyno contest.

Stan

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Old 02-19-2020, 01:36 PM
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Here is link to a podcast interview of Rock & Ginny Running. It's nearly an hour long.

https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/c...13_28_01-08_00

For any who don't know, Rock Running ran a couple of quick Pontiacs, back in the '70's & early '80's. In '74, it was a '74 GTO. I've posted pics of it at Indy. At the end of that season, he sold it to Dave Pruden. Don't know what happened to it after that.

Then from 75 thru '82, he ran a '71 T-37. Both cars were named "Super Sleeper", which is a name one of his kids came up with, for a big '66 Cat they had earlier.

Rock won his 1st nat event in the T-37, as well as quite a few other races. He then sold it to Ken Shawver, who raced it for a while. Then it also belonged to Danny Ashley for a while, as well as at least one other guy. I think it's the same car that Don Turk races now.
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