[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by AIR RAM

This is all great information however I am left wondering what blocks you guys are running at these levels. is it safe to assume everyone is running an aftermarket block or are any of you guys pushing 800+ in a factory prepped block? I just did not see anyone mention that little detail.

SPEED SAFE, NICK

The tread was started with the idea of a aftermarket block. I have a IA2 for the next build with the idea of well over 800HP, pump gas, steel Molnar Power Adders for the rods.
Right now the 461 will run the Crowers with modified Melling oil pump with larger pickup. Picking cam at this moment. Shooting for 700+ on pump gas.
Thats the max I will try for with a stock block. 800+ NA is a time bomb IMO. You do not hear about any efforts with a long life. Maybe they are out there ?
The plan is to run the 461 for a season or two and go with the big engine. 461 will end up a toned down street engine with HO heads.
We will see if it all works out. Life does not always go the way you plan.

[PAUL K]

My brothers 464 that runs high 9's in a 3710 lbs. car and bottom 9's on spray was originally assembled in 2001. It has a zillion passes and a ton of street miles. We are currently freshening it and replacing the rings and rod bearings for the first time....however it's never been on the dyno.

[cgeise]

When I had the turbo car - I started with Oliver rods and they did fine - btw Rod bolts are as or more important than the rod itself talk to Oliver about this -- I did change to an aluminum rod and saw that it was easier on the rod bearings for sure -- at over 20 lb boost --- just for info sake my 582 Chev has a Manley steel rod -- rated at 850 hp -- UNTIL you put the upgraded bolt in them then they are rated to 1200 hp -- just saying -- after 2 1/2 seasons the bearings looked great .

[Mike Davis]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Thats the max I will try for with a stock block. 800+ NA is a time bomb IMO. You do not hear about any efforts with a long life. Maybe they are out there

There are plenty of 775+ N/A stock blocks running year after year. The 3.25 main block in my car has been run since 2006 with 3 refreshes and one sleeve last year when it broke an intake valve. Normal shift point is 7200-7300RPM.
The 421 block that let go in Fla in 2006 that this block replaced had over 1200 passes on it before a piston broke.
Just because you haven't heard doesn't mean they are not out there.

[AIR RAM]

All good stuff to hear.... now days nobody wants to talk about stock blocks. Its good to hear stories about factory blocks living in the 800HP+ ball park.

SPEED SAFE, NICK

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by Mike Davis

There are plenty of 775+ N/A stock blocks running year after year. The 3.25 main block in my car has been run since 2006 with 3 refreshes and one sleeve last year when it broke an intake valve. Normal shift point is 7200-7300RPM.
The 421 block that let go in Fla in 2006 that this block replaced had over 1200 passes on it before a piston broke.
Just because you haven't heard doesn't mean they are not out there.

What do you know, you have only done it, not actually read about it..

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by cgeise

When I had the turbo car - I started with Oliver rods and they did fine - btw Rod bolts are as or more important than the rod itself talk to Oliver about this -- I did change to an aluminum rod and saw that it was easier on the rod bearings for sure -- at over 20 lb boost --- just for info sake my 582 Chev has a Manley steel rod -- rated at 850 hp -- UNTIL you put the upgraded bolt in them then they are rated to 1200 hp -- just saying -- after 2 1/2 seasons the bearings looked great .

The Crower rods I have are rated to 800 HP,7500RPM with the standard 2000 type bolts. Guy at Crower told me the 700$ bolts they have, kind you can not touch with bare hands, they run them in 3000HP engines.
Then you have Molnar, who tell me the 700$ bolts are snake oil and they run ARP 2000 bolts with their special threads in all their rods. standard, Power Adder and power Adder + rods.
I just want the rod to hold its shape and not break.

[GTO Dan]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

My brothers 464 that runs high 9's in a 3710 lbs. car and bottom 9's on spray was originally assembled in 2001. It has a zillion passes and a ton of street miles. We are currently freshening it and replacing the rings and rod bearings for the first time....however it's never been on the dyno.

EHTTFMF 😀

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by GTO Dan

EHTTFMF 😀

^^^Truth^^^

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

The Crower rods I have are rated to 800 HP,7500RPM with the standard 2000 type bolts. Guy at Crower told me the 700$ bolts they have, kind you can not touch with bare hands, they run them in 3000HP engines
Then you have Molnar, who tell me the 700$ bolts are snake oil and they run ARP 2000 bolts with their special threads in all their rods. standard, Power Adder and power Adder + rods.

The ARP L-19 bolt is a step up from the ARP 2000. The L-19 bolt is the one your not supposed to touch with your bare hands. Some builders smear Moly lube on their fingers when handling the bolts (I use a more sanitary approach) We use these bolts in our 3000 HP power adder engines also.

It looks like ARP is selling the same "snake oil"as Crower... Or maybe Molnar has a "reason" to justify only using the ARP 2000 rod bolts.

[Scott Stoneburg]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

The ARP L-19 bolt is a step up from the ARP 2000. The L-19 bolt is the one your not supposed to touch with your bare hands. Some builders smear Moly lube on their fingers when handling the bolts (I use a more sanitary approach) We use these bolts in our 3000 HP power adder engines also.

It looks like ARP is selling the same "snake oil"as Crower... Or maybe Molnar has a "reason" to justify only using the ARP 2000 rod bolts.

Why not touch them? I would have to assume its something with the oils in our skin effecting the metal. What are the bolts made of?

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Scott Stoneburg

Why not touch them? I would have to assume its something with the oils in our skin effecting the metal. What are the bolts made of?

I was told the oil contamination from our hands can cause corrosion on the bolt.... Hopefully that's it and the bolts aren't made from a toxic material. I have no idea what they're made from and I doubt they'd share.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

I was told the oil contamination from our hands can cause corrosion on the bolt.... Hopefully that's it and the bolts aren't made from a toxic material. I have no idea what they're made from and I doubt they'd share.

I was told the same, the salty oil from hands will corrode them. We use surgical gloves when handling them.

[Scott Stoneburg]

Not that I doubt the info, but I find it did that they could corrode while in a environment covered in oil. But I do know the oils in our skin cause issues with other materials

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Scott Stoneburg

Not that I doubt the info, but I find it did that they could corrode while in a environment covered in oil. But I do know the oils in our skin cause issues with other materials

I agree....but it gives a great excuse when the rod bolt fails!

[Jack Ferris]

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned. But, how can a manufacturer of any given rod rate its strength and ability by horsepower? A 406 SBC can make 850 hp at 8500 rpm and a 535 Pontiac will make 850 hp at 7200 rpm (examples only here) but use the same rod material and bolts. Isn't the rpm the common stress factor of a connecting rod? Even some china rods are rated at 1200 hp. Don't get that.

[cgeise]

what Oliver told me was that rod bolt strength was conditional on a number of things -- rod and piston weight -- RPM - stroke length and the load is not linier -- in that going from say 7500 to 8k is not 8 percent more load -- It could be 40 percent more load ( not there numbers but mine for use as an example )

[Dragncar]

The Crower rep when asked why the 2000 bolt was only good to 850HP and 7500 RPM "thats a heavy rod". But I bought the Molnar Power Adders in part because they cost less than the Crower bolts. I could have paid it and had one set of good rods. Now I have 2.
Ed at Molnar gave me a lengthy reason they use the special 2000 bolts. Only one I can remember right now is the threads only line up perfectly when clamped at full load.
I have a friend who had a Callies BBC crank, brand new. He sprayed some type of oil/ protector on the crank for storage. It looked like little worms on the journal surfaces when wiped off. He had to have it ground .010-.010 and sent back to Callies for nitriding. Seems you have to be very careful with some of the special steel alloys.

[taff2]

Ali rods in any performance app for me. Just buy ali rods for a much higher HP rating than what you need and they'll last a long, long time.
I used some 'well used' 7" ali rods in a n/a 406 (with the much maligned 557 block) to just under 600hp, 7000 rpm every pass for 3-4 years, hundreds of passes.
I use 6.7" Brooks B2 top meth rods (2500hp rated) in my current turbo combo (around 1200-1400hp projected). Both engines revved very quickly, better detonation resistance, more bulk around the big end, easier on rod bolts and big end shells. Alloys have come a long way since the time they stated to change the rods every 50-70 passes. The only glitch I see is that good ali rods are pretty expensive these days.

[Dragncar]

Back when I used to talk to Dan Whittmore a lot I asked about aluminum rods. He was not a fan and told me to go with the BME Hemi rod if I did. Complete overkill.
He had a customer who asked for a straight aluminum rod changeover with all the same parts except for the pistons that were the same CR. Ran the same ETs.
He was concerned about guys not properly warming up their engines and effecting his reputation up in Wisconsin as it gets cold up there. Told me to run a oil pan heater if I did.
If I can build a engine to get 850 HP and get it done before 7000RPM I do not see where steel rods would be a problem. But a lot of guys who have done it a lot like aluminum rods. So it makes you think and ask more questions.