[Txbobcat]

I bought a set of arp head bollts for my 428 from summit. They were in a small box so I put the heads on after putting on new head gaskets torqued them down and that is about all I did that day
. I jump back on the engine the next day and in another box I find black washers that look like they fit the head bolts. I have never put washers on any head bolt before but I am thinking maybe I made a mistake not installing the washers.
Question is do I remove the bolts and install washers and do I need to put new head gaskets on as well or just do one bolt at a time
Also torque arp said 100 pounds and pontiac says 80 pounds which is correct.
This install is going real slow. First I wait a week for new motor mounts then out of town for two weeks. Then the water pump is too long so wait 1 week to get the correct one from Ames then out of town for 12 days.

Then I put the crank and water pump pulleys on and they are touching.
Ordered a smaller crank pulley as old one is hittting the frame and it is time for me to go out of town as soon as I get it.

[glhs#116]

Use the washers in the box. Also, dig out and use the special lube in the box. Torque with the washers and the lube to ARP spec. Head gasket will be fine.

Sam

[Scott Stoneburg]

Washers go under the bolts. Yes remove the bolts and install the washers, no need to change head gaskets. But torque to ARP specs.

[74Grandville]

i would do one bolt at a time in the correct torque sequence. when installing the washer install the beveled edge down. make sure to use the ARP lube. think of this as retorquing the head bolts, which you would have needed to do anyway.

use the ARP torque spec

[tom s]

As I remember no lube between the washer and the head?Washer is supposed to not turn.Tom

[77 TRASHCAN]

On the SD Performance website, Dave recommends checking had bolt thread length, especially if heads have been milled. If there are not enough threads on a head bolt (saying that IF the smooth shank of the bolt sticks out past the head surface OR is real close) you will need washers. Of course this needs to be done with head off the engine... IF it were mine, I'd take the heads back off and check them!!!

[mgarblik]

There is allot going on in this thread with your questions as well as the answers. Best possible way to proceed would be to pull the heads and start over. But IMO, that's not necessary unless the block and heads have been machined an unknown amount. If the block and heads have been machined just to get the surfaces flat, you should be fine with the torquing washers provided. If your not sure, then removing the heads and checking bolt protrusion through the head is all you can do. The beveled inside of the washers goes toward the head of the bolt and the square edge faces the cylinder head. I would coat the threads of the bolts and both sides of the washer with ARP lube. You want the washer to act as a bearing and it doesn't matter if the washer spins or the bolt spins on the washer. They are hardened and parallel ground. What you are after is clamp load. Torque the fasteners to the ARP spec. for their hardware. If you remove the heads, I would replace the gaskets if a composition type. If they are a Cometic or other MLS gasket, you can use them over because you have not made it to the final clamp load yet. 80 LB vs 100 lb with ARP lube. Good luck with the build.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by 74Grandville

when installing the washer install the beveled edge down.

Absolutely NOT!

The bevel is to provide clearance for the extended fillet between bolt shank and bolt head. therefore the bevel goes against the bolt head--it faces UP.

Originally Posted by mgarblik

I would coat the threads of the bolts and both sides of the washer with ARP lube. You want the washer to act as a bearing and it doesn't matter if the washer spins or the bolt spins on the washer.

Nope. Lube the underside of the bolt head so it slides against the washer. Don't lube the bottom of the washer or the bolt pad on the cylinder head.

From the ARP web-site
https://arp-bolts.com/p/FAQ.php

Do I need lube on my bolts or studs?
We recommend using ARP Ultra-Torque lube to ensure an even, accurate clamp load and to prevent thread galling. This is particularly important for stainless steel fasteners. The lube should be used under the head of the bolt or the bearing surface of the nut and on the threads, unless a thread sealer is used.

Originally Posted by 74Grandville

make sure to use the ARP lube. think of this as retorquing the head bolts, which you would have needed to do anyway.

use the ARP torque spec

How did the machinist attach the torque plate? What bolts? What torque? What lube? You need to use the same procedure to attach the heads as the machinist used to attach the torque plate. Change the lube, change the torque, or change the amount of thread engagement, and the cylinders aren't round any more. The ideal would be for the machinist to have used ARP lube, ARP bolts, and ARP torque-spec when attaching the torque plate, with the same thread engagement as you'd have when installing the head. Then you do the same.

If the block wasn't torque-plate honed...I'd stay with stock torque and engine oil for lube, exactly as Pontiac intended. (I'd also be using OEM bolts in that case, not ARP.)

[Txbobcat]

Thanks for all the replys. I didnt have any original head bolts that is why I didnt reuse them. Machine shop rebuilt the short block only. Bought the heads from a friend and had a valve job done. Have to check to see if I have any arp lube left. If not can I buy that at like auto zone?

[74Grandville]

Originally Posted by Schurkey

Absolutely NOT!

The bevel is to provide clearance for the extended fillet between bolt shank and bolt head. therefore the bevel goes against the bolt head--it faces UP.

Thank you Schurkey, I was just about to reply that i made a mistake on this comment. Bevel goes up.

[tooski]

Arp instructions. Head bolts for my aluminum heads. I don't know where the 80 lb/ft comes from. My info says that is for a 231 6 cylinder ( if you believe a 1975 Chilton book). All other info I've researched says Pontiac V8's are 95.

[77 TRASHCAN]

Originally Posted by Txbobcat

Thanks for all the replys. I didnt have any original head bolts that is why I didnt reuse them. Machine shop rebuilt the short block only. Bought the heads from a friend and had a valve job done. Have to check to see if I have any arp lube left. If not can I buy that at like auto zone?

I doubt many will carry the lube. You might Google the stuff, to get part numbers (they make a couple different sizes). By having a part number, you won't have to wait for them to try to look it up....they can check with their warehouse usually quickly once they have a part number...I was refreshing a small block Chevy last year for a friend, had him order the larger can of lube from Summit when he was ordering some other stuff...

I'd still remove the heads to check, since you are using aftermarket bolts..

[glhs#116]

Seriously, check for an instruction sheet in the box or Google your part number. I saw instructions above saying to lube only the threads and underside of bolt head. And yet I just last week put the head bolts into my engine and the ARP instructions were to lube threads, underside of bolt and underside of washer. Products change, instructions change. You need the right instructions for the actual bolts you have. If the paper isn’t in the box then look it up online. And definitely use the ARP lube and spec.

Sam

[tooski]

Line 7. 'Lubricate under the head of the bolt and the washers"
I took that to mean to have lube between the bolt head and washer and between washer and head.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by tooski

Line 7. 'Lubricate under the head of the bolt and the washers"
I took that to mean to have lube between the bolt head and washer and between washer and head.

That is the information I referenced as well. I would follow manufacturers recommendations but can't see why creating a sliding surface on both sides of the hardened washer would have any negative effect on clamp load. I will try to find more information.

[Schurkey]

https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-te...ng-head-bolts/

This friction assumes that the washer remains stable under load. But if that head bolt washer is smooth enough, it can turn as the load is applied. This effectively turns that washer into a bearing, reducing the friction. If this spinning washer reduces the friction by even a third, this applies another 10- to 15-percent of torque into stretching the bolt. As you can probably guess, this radically increases the actual amount of torque needed to create the stretch in the bolt. This additional torque then either fails the bolt by stretching it beyond its yield strength – or this additional torque pulls the threads out of the block.

ARP’s simple fix is to just roughen the finish on one side of the head bolt washer with 60-grit sandpaper and the problem is solved... ...Their recommendation is to push the cylinder head side of the washer down the length of a 12-inch length of 60-grit sandpaper three times. This will create a rough finish that will prevent the washer from spinning as torque is applied.

Another critical issue is proper use of the lubricant. ARP recommends using its Ultra-Torque, which should only be placed between the washer and the head bolt or nut, if it is a stud. Try to keep the head side of the washer and the cylinder head with minimal lubricant as possible. Dry is preferred but that is not always possible. This will help prevent the washer from spinning.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Schurkey

https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-te...ng-head-bolts/

I just found this as well from another site: https://www.racepagesdigital.com/don...arp-fasteners/

I am never too old to learn. I guess I have been doing this wrong for 50+ years. Never a failure. Damn lucky, I guess.

[tom s]

Mike,post 5!Tom