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Old 06-12-2019, 06:34 AM
SD455DJ SD455DJ is offline
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Cliff, Did the Stover's run it as a RA equipped 455? It had a RA carb pan on it when I saw it, and, back then, I didn't know RA was an option on the 455, so thought they put a RAIII motor in it.

Dennis

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Old 06-12-2019, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmine View Post
Thanks again everyone. I could read this stuff all day, Carmine.
X2! Dennis

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Old 06-12-2019, 07:16 AM
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Cliff - Here's the picture I took of Dan's E/SA '71 455HO T-37 vs. Cathy's Clown in F/SA the 1st or 2nd round of eliminations. Dan won this race, btw. Dan confirms it was the 455HO (D-port) with the RA system.
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  #24  
Old 06-12-2019, 07:52 AM
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Yep, that's the car and when I last saw it (late 1970's) it had a 455 with "D" port heads and 99 percent sure it Ram Air.

I always wondered way back then who did the converter. That thing left so hard it sounded like the driver side-stepped the clutch at 5500rpm's....then it just shifted twice and pulled steadily down the track. It made ALL the ET right on the starting line!.........Cliff

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Old 06-12-2019, 08:12 AM
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When I bought my 66 in 1980 it had the old hand written time slips in the glove box. Car ran different configurations from new in June of 66 to 1970 when it was parked.
Configuration 1:
Car had a 389. 3x2, with auto trans. and 3.55 gears. Time slip in C/SA was 14.6
Configuration 2:
Same combo with open headers, 744 cam and Royal Bobcat Kit, Time slip 13.50

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Old 06-12-2019, 08:25 AM
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My 74 SD, brand new,500 + miles as delivered,14.2 98mph at Keystone Raceway.Traction was difficult,had to play with it.

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Old 06-12-2019, 11:37 AM
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"In the day" of 64-65 at Dragway 42 in Ohio I ran a 64 GTO Conv 4 bl 4 sp stock 3.23 on cheater slicks and could get low 15's and when everything went right dip into the high 14's. Didn't go home with a lot of trophies. The guys who were low 14's and high 13's were usually better rear end and more tuning.
One day a guy shows up with a 64 (maybe 65-been a long time) GTO with 3x2 and probably had at least the 3:55 rear when that became stock. Pulled his hub caps with street tires ran high 13 in tuning run, put the hub caps on and left. Never ran a race. Just wanted t know.

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Old 06-12-2019, 12:19 PM
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I'm sort of amazed those old cars didn't run quicker. For the guys that were there..how much did these cars pick up with good exhaust and tires? A few examples of the smog era>>>> My son's 80 trans am ran 14.0 at 99 mph with a relatively stock 76 low compression 400 with 3.42 gears but had a 3000 convertor on street tires, 3 tube headers and 2.5 inch exhaust. A few years earlier we messed around with a 85 cutlass with a stock worn out 1980 350 Chev engine 2400 convertor and 3.42 gears and that thing ran mid 14's on street tires.

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  #29  
Old 06-12-2019, 03:05 PM
Joe's Garage Joe's Garage is offline
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Arrow Dad played at the strip with a 1970 GTO 400/4spd in the late 1970s

All of the racing was at the old Bonneville Raceway in SLC Utah @ 4200ish feet.

GTO had the original 'WT' motor and '12' heads with around 95k miles, Muncie wide-ratio 4-spd 3.23 open 10-bolt rearend and LR50x15 Radial TAs on the back.

He started with it pretty much stock, possibly bumped the timing to 16 degrees BTDC, flipped the air cleaner top and ran 'CC' secondary rods in the qjet. 14.60@95-96mph.

Swapped in a Crane blueprinted '044' camshaft with factory 1.65 rockers, installed a set of 4-tube Doug Thorley headers hooked to the stock exhaust and installed a Moroso chrome 14x3" air cleaner. Dropped down to 14.45@98mph.

He says that the 044 was his favorite camshaft to that point because the idle sounded so good. Especially uncorked....

Added a Holley blue fuel pump, Moroso cool can filled with ice and uncorked the headers and it went 14.20@101mph.

Put on a factory #483674 1971 455HO aluminum intake using home-made block-off plates. Put ice under the intake in the staging lanes. 14.0@102mph.

And, finally, at the insistence of his younger brother, pulled off the P/S belt. Ran a best-ever of 13.78@104.5mph, shifting at 5500 rpms.

Then it lost a couple rod bearings..........thank you Fram oil filter company.........


Last edited by Joe's Garage; 06-12-2019 at 03:10 PM.
  #30  
Old 06-12-2019, 03:23 PM
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RocktimusPryme RocktimusPryme is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ta man View Post
I'm sort of amazed those old cars didn't run quicker. For the guys that were there..how much did these cars pick up with good exhaust and tires? A few examples of the smog era>>>> My son's 80 trans am ran 14.0 at 99 mph with a relatively stock 76 low compression 400 with 3.42 gears but had a 3000 convertor on street tires, 3 tube headers and 2.5 inch exhaust. A few years earlier we messed around with a 85 cutlass with a stock worn out 1980 350 Chev engine 2400 convertor and 3.42 gears and that thing ran mid 14's on street tires.

Im not nearly old enough to have been around for that, but Ive heard it said that tire technology has come a long way. If you could go back now with modern drag radials you could win a lot of money.

I think a bigger part of it is knowledge. We take for granted now, that you can come on here and post a question. An hour later you will have replies from several industry leaders. Even since I got in the hobby around 2000 its crazy how much things have changed on that front. How many people back then make ill advised cam swaps, or whatever else for lack of having someone to tell them it was a bad idea.

You can read a wiki page now, copy and paste a cheap turbo LS set-up and make 900HP. That type of information sharing is a recent change.

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  #31  
Old 06-12-2019, 06:26 PM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ta man View Post
I'm sort of amazed those old cars didn't run quicker. For the guys that were there..how much did these cars pick up with good exhaust and tires? A few examples of the smog era>>>> My son's 80 trans am ran 14.0 at 99 mph with a relatively stock 76 low compression 400 with 3.42 gears but had a 3000 convertor on street tires, 3 tube headers and 2.5 inch exhaust. A few years earlier we messed around with a 85 cutlass with a stock worn out 1980 350 Chev engine 2400 convertor and 3.42 gears and that thing ran mid 14's on street tires.
The biggest issue IMO, were the tires. Stock street tires were terrible and the radials of the day would wind up and release and wheel hop. Also, most of the cars rode on 14" wheels, even the full size cars. 7" wide tires are all you could fit on many models without body mods. If you look at typical trap speeds of a well tuned stock muscle car of the day, they were generally over 100 MPH. Most of my Pontiac's 102-104 MPH range. With good traction, that would be a 13.40-13.80 ET. But it was hard to break into the 13's with those tires. Pontiacs with Ram Air manifolds were better off than many as far as exhaust was concerned. A SBC would pick up big time just with a set of headers. Pontiac's not so much.

  #32  
Old 06-12-2019, 08:27 PM
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"Back in the day" .....tires sucked, mufflers sucked, torque converter technology wasn't near as good as what we have today. IMO the M&H racemaster and Flowmaster (as much as I dislike them) mufflers were game changers when they came out.
It's great to hear from guys that raced their cars back then. It gives us a better idea of what a real muscle car would've run in the quarter. A fourteen second car was quick, a thirteen second was fast and a twelve second car was the King. An eleven second car would be slicks, open headers and usually on a trailer.
It's nearly impossible to duplicate the performance of a stock muscle car today. Engine rebuilding equipment is much more precise, the exhaust will more than likely be an improvement over stock and the tires will be better.... We have it real easy when it comes to making a quick street car nowadays.
Great thread! I'm kinda surprised more guys haven't shared quarter mile times but thanks to those who have.

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Last edited by PAUL K; 06-12-2019 at 08:47 PM.
  #33  
Old 06-12-2019, 10:12 PM
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I wasn't around "back in the day" but I have raced my survivor '67 GTO. It's a 4 speed 335hp, A/C, 3.23 car. With full reproduction exhaust, untouched engine other than adjusting timing and richer jets, and Coker redlines it's been a best of 14.33 but I don't remember the MPH.

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  #34  
Old 06-12-2019, 11:05 PM
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My 64 would run 14.2s @ 101-102. 7-50/14s, 3.90/4spd/tri-power.

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  #35  
Old 06-13-2019, 12:42 AM
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I had a 64 Lemans when I was 20 that the previous owner had put a bone stock 66 YS code 389 and M20 4 speed in that had been recently rebuilt when I bought it. The only change from stock was a regular performer intake because it had the AFB on it and I wanted a Holley like a dumb kid. With no change other than a 650 vacuum secondary holley the intake a set of cheap slicks I ran a 13.0 flat at 107 miles an hour with a 3.55 rear gear. Did that one time and was never able to duplicate it. At 20 years old however I thought that car was a beast on the street. At that time it was the fastest thing I had ever driven LOL

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  #36  
Old 06-13-2019, 07:52 PM
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I had a 1977 Can Am from 1983-1995. I put a .060 over 455, Speed Pro forged pistons, #96 400 4 bbl heads, gasket matched, Crane blueprint 068 w/ 1.65 Ram Air 4 rockers, 1970 cast iron Q-jet intake, 1977 stock Q-jet carb with a H-O racing jet kit, 3 tube headers, full 2 1/2" exhaust, Turbo 400 and 3.08 posi axle. It weighed 4465 lbs at Milan Dragway in 1985. I had 255 60 R 15 Eagle S/T tires and my best was a 13.50 @102.80 through the exhaust on a short pair of old 26" borrowed slicks. It was a tank and had every power accessory and A/C.

  #37  
Old 06-13-2019, 09:51 PM
Goatracer1 Goatracer1 is offline
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I was talking about Daily Driven cars. I drove my 1965 GTO 40 miles each way to work 5 days a week 12 months a year through NE weather. This included at times 12 inches of snow. In fact with real snow tires, 4 spd and 3.55 limited slip it was very good in the snow. We didn't have "good tires" or good exhaust. We never changed the converter. If we did it was to install a 6 cylinder one from I believe a Power Glide. Didn't last long. It was illegal to have "cut outs" on your exhaust. The biggest tires at the time we could use were M/T 28x7 cheater slicks. My wife's mini van has better tires. Don't compare the 1970's or 1980's with the 1960's.

  #38  
Old 06-14-2019, 12:20 AM
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October 1971 with my T-37. About 8-10 k miles on it.
Only 1 squirrely tire spinning run at Fremont (across the freeway from where it was built)
14.14 @ 103.92. Never had raced at the track. Left late still won.
Dialed in at the next race at 13.85. Missed second but would have broke out.
Remember it had the 066 not 068 cam.
Felt it would have run quicker. Junk from traveling from AK. Changed plugs once, I think.
Only modification was G-60 X 15’s. Convinced them they were optional on the Judge.

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  #39  
Old 06-14-2019, 06:35 AM
SD455DJ SD455DJ is offline
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Jack - Do you have any pictures of your T-37 from back in the day?

Dennis

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