[Carmine]

Hi everyone. As the title suggest, back in the day, if any members ran a pretty much stock GTO at the drags, what was your e.t. and mph, if you recall?? The year of your car and drivetrain info would also be helpful. I thought my near stock '67 GTO on streets tires, headers connected, tripower with the tripower camshaft, ran a best of 14.2 at 95 mph, which I thought was real good. I was told that back in the day, a factory stock GTO, didn't mention year or drivetrain, would run in the 12's??? Hmmm.....................Now I'm not so sure mine ran that good. Would like to hear from others. Thanks, Carmine.

[steve25]

When they talk of running 12s with a 4 speed car from what I recall it was darn near at Sea level and it was just cracking into the 12's .

The GTO and B body 389 4 bbl motors even when super tuned really only had 300 real world hp to work with, so you can run the numbers from that and there body weight at the time with driver.

As I recall the ram air motors with the 744 Cam where very sensitive to timing chain stretch and even what might be concidered a normally worn chain would lob 20 hp off the motor due to cylinder pressure drop off!

[mgarblik]

I have a ton of old car magazines with road tests from "back in the day". Car Life always seemed to be a little slow. Car and Driver, Road and Track, seemed to be about right with the cars I owned. Hot Rod and Car Craft, a little quick. My stock Ram Air III 4-speed, 70 1/2 TA ran a best of 13.95 @ 102.47 on Polyglas tires through the stock single muffler. 1969 GTO Ram Air III 4-speed convertible ran the almost identical 13.90@ 102 mph. My 66 2+2 421 HO 4-speed on red lines ran 13.69 @ 104.2 MPH @ 4450 lbs. It was a convertible. Better tires would have knocked .2-.3 seconds off the ET based on the trap speed. I forgot my regular 69 GTO I had. It was a pretty worn out 350 HP 400 stock auto trans. It ran 14.45 @ 94 MPH. It had over 100K on the clock and had never been apart. It was my daily beater. Bought it for $700.00 from a retired cop.

[SD455DJ]

My RAIV/TH400 auto/3.90 rear Judge ran 13.50's at 106 mph best at 4050 lbs. with driver. Dan's 455HO/TH400 auto/3.55 rear ran the same times/mph at 3650 lbs. with driver. Both pure stock with their factory 13" torque convertors, but with distributor recurves and carb jetting (little richer).

Dennis

[SD455DJ]

Oops...Dan's 1971 455HO T-37 that is. On G70-14 Firestone Wide Ovals for both cars.

Dennis

[Chief of the 60's]

I think it was a 9.60 pass (1/8) in my '65 with cheater slicks and a huge Carter Thermoquad with an adaptor plate to fit the stock intake.

[SD455DJ]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

I have a ton of old car magazines with road tests from "back in the day". Car Life always seemed to be a little slow. Car and Driver, Road and Track, seemed to be about right with the cars I owned. Hot Rod and Car Craft, a little quick. My stock Ram Air III 4-speed, 70 1/2 TA ran a best of 13.95 @ 102.47 on Polyglas tires through the stock single muffler. 1969 GTO Ram Air III 4-speed convertible ran the almost identical 13.90@ 102 mph. My 66 2+2 421 HO 4-speed on red lines ran 13.69 @ 104.2 MPH @ 4450 lbs. It was a convertible. Better tires would have knocked .2-.3 seconds off the ET based on the trap speed. I forgot my regular 69 GTO I had. It was a pretty worn out 350 HP 400 stock auto trans. It ran 14.45 @ 94 MPH. It had over 100K on the clock and had never been apart. It was my daily beater. Bought it for $700.00 from a retired cop.

Mike - Yeah, Car Life always tested the cars with two people aboard...strange. I loved the Super Stock & Drag Illustrated road tests as well as Popular Hot Rodding as well. You had good running stock Pontiacs and recall seeing your '66 2+2 at one of the races back in the late 80's, or early 90's.

Dennis

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

Apples to Apples everywhere, but deeper optional rear gear and first gear should yield a lower ET....if you can hook it up. Comparing cars with different ratios can move #'s around a good bit, also the driver variable with a 4 speed car launch.

[dataway]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

I forgot my regular 69 GTO I had. It was a pretty worn out 350 HP 400 stock auto trans. It ran 14.45 @ 94 MPH. It had over 100K on the clock and had never been apart. It was my daily beater. Bought it for $700.00 from a retired cop.

Sounds just right ... my stock 68 (with AC equipment removed), auto, 2.93 rear, about 90,000 miles on the clock, some slightly wider tires ran 14.35. Bought it from my high school teacher for $1000 in 1976.
Oh yeah, I think the air cleaner lid was flipped over too

[Skip Fix]

My 78 TA with teh 2.56 rear gear and a cam only ran 14s @ 96.

At the '72 IHRA events in Dallas in the summer and fall my 64 409 Impala ran 12.20s@108 open headers big solid cam 4 speed and 4.56s. It was upgraded with teh stock cast piston 340 HP short block to the 425 HP heads and dual quad intake, weighed 3860. In fact the class trophies I gave away a few years ago to the guy that bought the Monk King 72 HO GT-37 since that car won class those same races since it has race history. I felt pretty good as a high school kid running even with Dave Boertman's Rod Shop 340 Dart in time trials!

[aceaceca]

62 Cat @4250 lbs, 425A engine, Tri power, 3.90's. 4 spd, open long branch exhaust, Goodyear Blue Streaks, GTO cam, ran 14.26 at just under 100mph all day long. D stock.
Only nemesis was a Hi Po 289 Fastback in full race mode. Big Poncho ran out of giddy up toward the end. One fender length difference. All others need not apply.

[geeteeohguy]

Low 14's-high 13's were pretty much the norm for a stock Tripower stickshift GTO back then with 3.55 gears. I have an old magazine from '66 or '67 where they took a 40,000 mile '66 GTO that dyno'd at 180 HP at the rear wheels and went mid-high 14's....they then installed a Bobcat kit, 3.90 gears, Dougs headers, and Casler slicks, and the car ran 12.43 or so, dyno-ing at something like 260-280 at the rear wheels. A huge improvement for what was done in a day's worth of bolt-ons. I know of zero GTO's that ran into the 12's in absolute bone-stock form back then.

[Carmine]

Thanks everyone. I wanted to believe that maybe an almost bone stock GTO would run in the 12's, but I knew it probably wasn't true. Oh well.

[Goatracer1]

Completely stock 1967 GTO 4bbl motor, AT, AC street tires and 2.93 rear near sea level 16.3 seconds. 1965 GTO tripower, 4spd 3.55 rear 15.2 seconds on street tires. This was at New England Dragway in late 1960's. For comparison my dad's 1963 389 2bbl with 10.25 compression Star Chief with AT and 2.69 rear no AC ran 16.6 seconds. These were realistic times for your run of the mill every day drivers not specially prepped race cars. Back then a 14 second driver was a fast car.

[SD455DJ]

Goatracer1 is right...it was rare to see any factory stock muscle car run in the 13's, let alone 12's without help (modifications). The RAIV GTO's tested in all the magazines were terrible performers and not set up correctly. The best test time that I recall was 14.40's at 99 mph in PHR for a red on red '70 that floated around to 3 or 4 magazines and never ran well. There were posted times that were quicker for the prototype '69 RAIV GTO (non-Judge that was a Limelight green auto car), but not an actual drag test. I believe the said it ran high 13's at 105 mph. A RAII firebird could have run solid 13's, but I don't recall any tests that were stock. Most good running Pontiacs were Bobcat-ed at Royal & Milt Schornack.

Dennis

[Cliff R]

A stone stock street car that ran into the 13's was a quick car in these parts back "in the day".

I only remember a few in these parts, and they were all Mopars, not Pontiac's. This area to this day is heavily concentrated with Mopar enthusiasts, a good bit of Chevy's, but only a few Pontiac's. It was the home of Ray Stovers F/SA GTO "Kathys Clown, but I heard the car sold quite a few years ago and may have went overseas........Cliff

[SD455DJ]

Cliff - I remember watching the Stover's (1970 GTO) Kathy's Clown at the Popular Hot Rodding Nationals at US131 Dragway back in the late 70's. I think it was Atoll blue (or was it Pepper green?) and at that time I thought was running a RAIII 400, not the 455 HO, but I'm not totally sure about that.

Dennis

[Carmine]

Thanks again everyone. I could read this stuff all day, Carmine.

[MarkS57]

Within the last maybe 20 - 25 years there was an article in either CC or HR, don't remember which, but it was a 1/4 mile test of bone stock 1969 RAIV T/A & a 1974 455SD T/A. These cars came from a collector's stable I think somewhere in Arizona. The 69 had 750miles on it and was a 4 speed. Don't remember the mileage on the 74 but it was low and an automatic. The 69 ran 13.7 & the 74 13.9. It made an impression on me because I thought it pretty cool that someone would let a collector car like a 69 RAVI T/A be put through its paces like that. On the other hand, I seemed to remember this collector having a boat load of cars so if the T/A blew up...oh well..
The article intro showed a pair of aviator googles saying these might be necessary when testing 2 of Pontiac's highest fliers.

[Cliff R]

"Cliff - I remember watching the Stover's (1970 GTO) Kathy's Clown at the Popular Hot Rodding Nationals at US131 Dragway back in the late 70's. I think it was Atoll blue (or was it Pepper green?) and at that time I thought was running a RAIII 400, not the 455 HO, but I'm not totally sure about that."

It was green when it raced here at our local track (Pacemakers). 455 powered, stock intake, Q-jet, etc. It left really hard like it had a 5500rpm stall converter in it, wheels high in the air, etc. Can't remember how quick it ran, but I can't remember what I had for breakfast this morning either!.....Cliff