Pontiac - Boost Turbo, supercharged, Nitrous, EFI & other Power Adders discussed here.

          
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 12-06-2019, 08:23 PM
Murf Murf is online now
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: St. Marys Ks. U.S.A.
Posts: 1,486
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan Weiss View Post
I don't know if anyone has ever seen the video of the model airplane that was build and used a leaf blower for it power / propulsion.

Using the same idea. I see a RYOBI leaf blowers going for $129 specs 160 MPH / 520 CFM. So if I take 3 of them for less then $400, I have 1540 CFM. On a fair size engine I can get a 2:1 pressure ratio. I can have a fun day at the track with them and a few spare battery packs.

Stan


Like this?

https://youtu.be/FiFiwFlH1s0


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  #42  
Old 12-07-2019, 12:42 AM
GTOGEORGE's Avatar
GTOGEORGE GTOGEORGE is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: South Rockwood, MICHIGAN
Posts: 8,884
Default

Just say a video on YouTube where a performance place is going to make (prototype) a normal sized electric supercharger and plans on making big hp from it, should be interesting! He didn’t give any details but th turbo/ supercharger looked like a good size, I’ll have to rewatch the video.
The torqamp electric supercharger used a 48 volt lithium battery which powered the 80,000 rpm electric motor and the lithium battery was recharged by the cars alternator.


GTO George


Last edited by GTOGEORGE; 12-07-2019 at 12:53 AM.
  #43  
Old 12-07-2019, 09:58 AM
Half-Inch Stud's Avatar
Half-Inch Stud Half-Inch Stud is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: BlueBell, PA or AL U.S.A.
Posts: 18,457
Default

yeap

Convinced you can make your own for waaay less than $1250, and develop-up the depresion to > 3 psi.

I got several Toyota "GT28" turbo compressor shells for $30 each on ebay.
Impellers from various (ebay, etc) and ran evals, calcs on excel. CFM calcs are humbling so a fella has to be clever.

Motors by catalog engineering the Specs for 90A-120A with > 3000 KV (not easy but they exist). So, i bought pairs of 2 design type motors, nailed it the 1st time and bettered-it the 2nd time. NeuMotors is best but start with 5mm shafted Chine junk.

I have Commercial-Professional 300 AMP ESCs, and a $8 hobo PWM controller (is good).

The Manometer & "Cal'd orifice flow Plate" are key to incremental improvements. A fun optimization. Once yo have goodness, replace the cal-orifice plate with an un-cal'd venturi for relative improvements.

I ended up with a 2-Stage that gets to 6 PSI for 3 HP (electrical). Should go into Biz huh. Each stage draws 3psi at 2.7 HP alone, but the 2-stage can be tuned so one helps reduce the other's shaft TQ (current goes down)

RPM meter is nice, but ESC playback is nicer: RPM V, Amps, Thermal.

Go eat!

(Since development time is money, i ought make these for PY folks...instead of $2500!)

I think the hardest part is the air MGMT piping Boost to carb Hat. The glossy croud wants $350 for a cast hat. I say no way Use a factory Air Filter case of your liking and plumb a 2"-3" round to Snorkel adaptation and look good the way you like.

Single stage boost is meh.
dual boost is being dumb (2x meh)
2-Stage boost is an eye opener.


Last edited by Half-Inch Stud; 12-07-2019 at 10:06 AM.
  #44  
Old 12-07-2019, 10:10 AM
Half-Inch Stud's Avatar
Half-Inch Stud Half-Inch Stud is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: BlueBell, PA or AL U.S.A.
Posts: 18,457
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE View Post
I’m thinking 4 would probably do the trick at 48 volts! GTO George
My ESCs can do that but 48V is squirrly to control. Optimize the motor HP, KV Spec. or the motor turns into a lightbulb.

--> I settled at 33 Volt under load (38Volt from Car plus 2 mower batteries).

  #45  
Old 12-07-2019, 11:06 AM
Tom Vaught's Avatar
Tom Vaught Tom Vaught is offline
Boost Engineer
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The United States of America
Posts: 31,294
Default

6 psi of Boost is the amount Ford made on the 1978 Ford Mustang 4 cylinder and it was a dog.

Tom V.

__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught

Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward.
  #46  
Old 12-07-2019, 12:14 PM
GTOGEORGE's Avatar
GTOGEORGE GTOGEORGE is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: South Rockwood, MICHIGAN
Posts: 8,884
Default

What’s really interesting that some people are over looking is the electric supercharger DOUBLED the hp making only 8 lbs of boost no a small 120 cubed 4 cylinder.....that’s doubled, a lot of racers wish they could double their hp with a 30 min bolt (screw) on!! I ran 9.49’s a looooong time ago with only 3 lbs of boost and last year I ran 8.30’s on 7 lbs of boost! It’s not how much boost you run it’s what you do with the boost you are making!!


GTO George

The Following User Says Thank You to GTOGEORGE For This Useful Post:
  #47  
Old 12-07-2019, 12:46 PM
Stan Weiss's Avatar
Stan Weiss Stan Weiss is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 5,000
Default

Really?

Stan

__________________
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises
Offering Performance Software Since 1987
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm
David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV
Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php
Pontiac Pump Gas List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm
Using PMD Block and Heads List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm
  #48  
Old 12-07-2019, 01:49 PM
Tom Vaught's Avatar
Tom Vaught Tom Vaught is offline
Boost Engineer
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The United States of America
Posts: 31,294
Default

Some people Stan have never heard of the Term "Cost/benefit Ratio".

I see no benefit to buying a $5,000 set of two Electric Superchargers to gain 100 HP
over the stock 100 hp engine when for the same $5,000 you could buy one of Art Whipple's Screw Superchargers and make 1200 horsepower on an engine.
Whipple's higher end superchargers are around 5K and will make 30 psi of boost pressure vs say 14 psi on a 8-71 roots supercharger.

It has to do with PRESSURE RATIOS and Compressor Efficiency. Roots is poor on both of those just like the electric units discussed. The Leaf blowers being an exception due to their design. Just like a Whipple vs a Roots. At one time they outlawed the Kobeco screw superchargers as being unfair vs the 14-71 roots stuff.

Tom V.

In the late 1960s, my favorite "Know Nothing" comment from the Pontiac Guys was My Pontiac Engine is better than the Chevy 427 Vette engine because "It has 1 more cubic inch of displacement".

__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught

Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward.

Last edited by Tom Vaught; 12-07-2019 at 02:06 PM.
  #49  
Old 12-07-2019, 02:49 PM
GTOGEORGE's Avatar
GTOGEORGE GTOGEORGE is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: South Rockwood, MICHIGAN
Posts: 8,884
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan Weiss View Post
Really?

Stan
Yes Stan........really, I don’t lie!

GTO George

  #50  
Old 12-07-2019, 03:41 PM
Stan Weiss's Avatar
Stan Weiss Stan Weiss is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 5,000
Default

LMAO got ya

Double the HP with 8 psi of boost. General you need a Pressure of about 2:1 to double HP. So for that to happen with 8 psi of boost you would need to be at a altitude of almost 15900 feet.

Stan

__________________
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises
Offering Performance Software Since 1987
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm
David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV
Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php
Pontiac Pump Gas List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm
Using PMD Block and Heads List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm
  #51  
Old 12-07-2019, 04:31 PM
GTOGEORGE's Avatar
GTOGEORGE GTOGEORGE is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: South Rockwood, MICHIGAN
Posts: 8,884
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan Weiss View Post
LMAO got ya

Double the HP with 8 psi of boost. General you need a Pressure of about 2:1 to double HP. So for that to happen with 8 psi of boost you would need to be at a altitude of almost 15900 feet.

Stan
Yep......the 4 cylinder made 105 hp with out and 193 or 197 hp, with the high of 8 lbs of boost but I think it dropped to 7 lbs in the upper rpm range. Pretty damn impressive for an electric supercharger and 30 min. of work and NO tuning......that was also a chassis Dyno!


GTO George

  #52  
Old 12-07-2019, 04:59 PM
Half-Inch Stud's Avatar
Half-Inch Stud Half-Inch Stud is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: BlueBell, PA or AL U.S.A.
Posts: 18,457
Default

$5000? not gonna dot it.
$2500 naw, not gonna doit
$1000, nope

$400 and some beer, some data study. Done it.

  #53  
Old 12-07-2019, 05:10 PM
GTOGEORGE's Avatar
GTOGEORGE GTOGEORGE is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: South Rockwood, MICHIGAN
Posts: 8,884
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud View Post
$5000? not gonna dot it.
$2500 naw, not gonna doit
$1000, nope

$400 and some beer, some data study. Done it.
How much hp increase and et gain was it?


GTO George

  #54  
Old 12-07-2019, 11:11 PM
LStathas LStathas is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Green Bay,WI
Posts: 105
Default

I'm pretty ignorant about turbos but wouldn't this also cause a carb situation with our traditional Pontiacs? Or are we assuming an FI upgrade? Blowthru vs Drawthru if a carb is used? Seems like the conversation is saying just bolt on a hair dryer and get cool gains?

__________________
Green Bay: A drinking town with a football problem.
  #55  
Old 12-08-2019, 09:58 AM
Tom Vaught's Avatar
Tom Vaught Tom Vaught is offline
Boost Engineer
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The United States of America
Posts: 31,294
Default

You need to have the correct Fuel/Air mixture getting to the engine combustion chambers
and the Air Device (Turbo, Supercharger, Leaf Blower, Electric Supercharger is only half of the equation.

Videos always make it a lot easier vs the actual development time to get it right and also typically only highlight the good good features and none of the weaknesses.
They never do a video where they say your part is a POS.

Tom V.

__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught

Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward.
  #56  
Old 12-08-2019, 11:46 AM
GTOGEORGE's Avatar
GTOGEORGE GTOGEORGE is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: South Rockwood, MICHIGAN
Posts: 8,884
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LStathas View Post
I'm pretty ignorant about turbos but wouldn't this also cause a carb situation with our traditional Pontiacs? Or are we assuming an FI upgrade? Blowthru vs Drawthru if a carb is used? Seems like the conversation is saying just bolt on a hair dryer and get cool gains?
It’s amazing how SOME people can criticize a video or product without having NEVER seen it or knowing NOTHING about it! LOL! With the torqamp in the video ( I rewatched the 25 min video) all they did was add better fuel so the cars computer wouldn’t pull timing out. With a carb you would have to either buy a blow through carb or do it yourself, I’ve never worked with a blow through setup. Like I said earlier there’s a company doing a vortex v2 turbo ( I have know idea how big it is but it way bigger then the torqamp) into an electric supercharger and plans on making big (compared to the torqamp) hp!


GTO George

  #57  
Old 12-08-2019, 01:51 PM
Tom Vaught's Avatar
Tom Vaught Tom Vaught is offline
Boost Engineer
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The United States of America
Posts: 31,294
Default

1) Videos can be anything they want to be. Working on stuff as a JOB is different.
Some don't seem to understand the difference. You can criticize something if you have experience on the product and have actually run testing and use that info in your posts.
In your case you are just assuming a lot of stuff based on watching a 30 minute video.
Kind of like the Turqstorm deal where where the video was showing 25 lbs of minute mass flow (250 hp) and you were posting 500 hp type bullchit.

2) Get out of retirement, apply for a job with Torqstorm, tell them you have no experience with ANY centrifugal boosting device, tell them you run 7.98 with a Roots blower and see if you get a call back.


Tom V.

__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught

Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward.
  #58  
Old 12-08-2019, 09:32 PM
Half-Inch Stud's Avatar
Half-Inch Stud Half-Inch Stud is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: BlueBell, PA or AL U.S.A.
Posts: 18,457
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE View Post
How much hp increase and et gain was it? GTO George
I dunno. Have not installed the 2-stage due to moving home, etc. Will take time to figure/get a hat on the 1050.

Car runs 12.2-12.0 as-is @3850 Lb. I suppose if it would run 11.0 on the hobo-boost that equal to 1000 Lb weight reduction for same HP NA. I guess that would be +100 hp huh.

__________________
12.24/111.6MPH/1.76 60'/28"/3.54:1/SP-TH400/469 R96A/236-244-112LC/1050&TorkerI//3850Lbs//15MPG/89oct

Sold 2003: 12.00/112MPH/1.61 60'/26"x3.31:1/10"/469 #48/245-255-110LSA/Q-Jet-Torker/3650Lbs//18MPG 94oct
Sold 1994: 11.00/123MPH/1.50 60'/29.5"x4.10:1/10"/469 #48/245-255-110LSA/Dual600s-Wenzler/3250Lbs//94oct
  #59  
Old 12-08-2019, 09:39 PM
GTOGEORGE's Avatar
GTOGEORGE GTOGEORGE is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: South Rockwood, MICHIGAN
Posts: 8,884
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud View Post
I dunno. Have not installed the 2-stage due to moving home, etc. Will take time to figure/get a hat on the 1050.

Car runs 12.2-12.0 as-is @3850 Lb. I suppose if it would run 11.0 on the hobo-boost that equal to 1000 Lb weight reduction for same HP NA. I guess that would be +100 hp huh.
That’s not possible, some non so called experts say it won’t work!


GTO George

  #60  
Old 12-09-2019, 01:08 PM
Tom Vaught's Avatar
Tom Vaught Tom Vaught is offline
Boost Engineer
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The United States of America
Posts: 31,294
Default

Bill Klausing's 63 Wagon ran 12.06 with a basic NA tri-carb system at 4300 pounds with a very mild 455 engine. I would hope HIS could run deep in the 11s 450 lbs lighter than Bill's deal NA. Forget about the Electric Boost system. Bill had hundreds of passes on that car with that low 12 second et. 450 lbs lighter would be the difference (as well as tuning) not the "HOBO" boost system. FACTS not BS or assumptions.

Tom V.

__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught

Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:29 AM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017