[simsb52]

I have started to make roller bearing cam plates for pontiac engines to replace the stock stamped cam retaining plate. I make the plate from tool steel and modify the cam gear to accept the new
setup. I am selling a new 3pc. timing set from rollmaster modified for the bearings and thicker plate, bearings and races, cam plate, 12 pt. grade 8 bolts and alignment tool to center the plate on the cam center line, all for $235. The kit requires no modifications to the cam or block. It also allows the use of the stock fuel pump encentric. If interested ... feel free to E-Mail me

Thanks....
Scott

Scott Sims
Sims Performance Machining
19370E. 400S.
Elizabehthtown, Indiana
47232
Ph/fax 812-579-9815
simsb52@qmix.net

[Goatman]

What's wrong with the stock plate?

Fist fulla bullets and a chest fulla teflon....

-Biggee Smalls

[Jack Ferris]

Do the stock retaining plates really take that much abuse? What is the advantage of a plate with a roller bearing?

[Goatman]

Indian Adventures makes new "factory" plates and I've used them on two roller motors now with no problems.

I can't imagine that you would gain any HP without using roller bearings on the cam journals and not just the plate.

Any dyno data?

Fist fulla bullets and a chest fulla teflon....

-Biggee Smalls

[simsb52]

I developed this cam plate because I race circle track. Being on and off the gas so much was putting alot of wear on the cam and cam plate both. When under acceleration the cam tends to wants to walk out the front of the engine, flat tappet or roller, it still wants to push out. This is probably caused by the distributors helicial gear. I wanted to reduce the parasitic drag in this area as well as coming up with a new idea for possible "bolt on" horsepower. I plan to head to the dyno in mid february to see, if any, horsepower gain is to be had. I also had the mind set that if it was me ...Bolting in the same old cam plate after spending $2000 or more to rebuild a pontiac engine seemed low tech. I know, Iknow, if it is not broke, dont fix it. I am not, just trying to make it better. I do know that Ford and Chevy folks apply this technology to their serious builds.....so why not for Pontiac?

[Chris Beck]

Sounds like a really nice addition since thrust is placed on a flat surface with little lubrication and no adjustment for slop. I use the Milodon single idler gear drive and it uses the same principle with a torrington bearing that is shimmed for endplay, just like you would set-up a performance distributor. I also run a timing chain set on my SBC that had the end of the cam gear cut to allow a torrington bearing and shims to be installed behind the gear. Lots of other makes use these also. Glad to hear that somebody had the time and energy to develope an application for a pontiac without having to do a bunch of machining. Thanks Scott....

[simsb52]

Thanks, I thought that it might help. I also try to set the camshaft endplay @ about .005" to .008". This is for the folks that really like their timing set just right. Because if the cam moves foward to much, the timing setting is lost, especially under load. Also..Roller cam users dont tend to like alot of cam movement front to back. They like to keep that roller in the center of the lobe as much as possible.

Thanks for looking...
Scott

[2manyponchos]

A relative of mine purchased the roller bearing cam plate setup from Scott a few weeks back. It is a very nice setup. The retaining plate is a nice piece and made out of thicker gauge steel than stock. The machining on the cam gear is top notch with radiused corners to eliminate a stress riser. Torrington bearings locate the cam in both directions. An alignment tool is included to locate the retainer plate, thus centering the bearing and race. I feel that Scott really did his homework on this setup. The setup my uncle purchased will be going on his BES built 455 as soon as time permits (too many customer projects). Tony Bischoff reviewed the setup and is going to start recommending them to his customers. I've seen several 30 year old stock retainer plates that are grooved and show significant wear. I am all for anything that improves longevity and reliability. I'll be buying one for my street/strip 455 when I get started. That's my 2 cents. -Doug

[Goatman]

My questions still remain.

How many "stock" plates can you buy for $215? Has anyone ever worn out a new one?

How much HP does it add?

Is there really a need for one?

Fist fulla bullets and a chest fulla teflon....

-Biggee Smalls

[J Brady]

Bruce, for your motor their would be no reason to have one!

[This message was edited by j brady on January 14, 2004 at 01:01 PM.]

[2manyponchos]

I feel that this will also improve timing chain life as there will be significantly less axial movement. The axial movement of the cam from accels and decels adds unnecessary stress to the chain. I believe this setup will decrease that amount of movement and improve chain life.

Please remember that the price of $215 includes a Rollmaster billet timing chain set, along with the plate, bearings, and alignment tool.

An individual could easily spend $100 on the Rollmaster timing chain set and a stock replacement retainer plate. An extra $100 or so seems like cheap insurance to me, especially when complete engines rebuilds start in the $2000 range and go up depending on application.

I have seen several thrashed stock retainer plates, but haven't kept any for show and tell. Most have been turned into scrap metal.

I think it's pretty cool that someone spent the time to create a new part for Pontiacs and advance the hobby. -Doug

[Ron]

Sounds like a very nice piece. A good addition to a performance motor.

Ron

[jack gaydosh]

do you make one for a tall deck ? thanks jack gaydosh

2000 N/A PONTIAC FIREBIRD

[simsb52]

I do not have anything in stock for a tall deck pontiac. But I can make one! No problem at all! Email me @ simsb52@qmix.net to let me know.

Thanks...Scott

[Brian Baker]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Goatman:
My questions still remain.

How many "stock" plates can you buy for $215? Has anyone ever worn out a new one?

How much HP does it add?

Is there really a need for one?

Fist fulla bullets and a chest fulla teflon....

-Biggee Smalls<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How many "stock" timing covers can you buy for the cost of one billet timing cover?

Is there anything really wrong with the "stock" cast aluminum timing covers?

Is there a need for billet timing covers?

[PONTIAC DUDE]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brian Baker:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Goatman:
My questions still remain.

How many "stock" plates can you buy for $215? Has anyone ever worn out a new one?

How much HP does it add?

Is there really a need for one?

Fist fulla bullets and a chest fulla teflon....

-Biggee Smalls<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How many "stock" timing covers can you buy for the cost of one billet timing cover?

Is there anything really wrong with the "stock" cast aluminum timing covers?

Is there a need for billet timing covers?

http://kurtspontiac.homestead.com/files/bbaker.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


OUCH LOL.

************************************************** ***************************

Build it fast, build it right, build a Pontiac.


http://PontiacDude.cc

[Goatman]

There are several functional aspects of the cover, as well as asthetic.

Its a two piece cover, so I can look in there to see stretch or inspect my stock cam plate. Its much lighter and stronger. It uses a small block Chevy water pump, which is also lighter. It also incorporates a motor plate, so I didn't need to run elephant ears, which aren't as strong.....

Plus, its shiny...........

I'm sure there are more benefits, but you can as Mr. Gaydosh, since he designed it....

This product for sale, I really don't see a need for unless it adds HP. The Chevies and such use cam buttons to stop "walking", but as far as I've ever heard, its not really an issue with the Pontiacs.

Fist fulla bullets and a chest fulla teflon....

-Biggee Smalls

[Larry Navarro]

Hey Scott...put an Indian Adventures sticker on it and everyone will agree that the product is worth buying....

Biggee???...he's dead....chest fulla lead!!

1973 SD455 T/A
1979 SE474 T/A
http://community.webshots.com/album/16587603rOyvmFCiHs

[Goatman]

IA developes and releases products that are needed. Enough said.

Biggee lives on............ Always.



Fist fulla bullets and a chest fulla teflon....

-Biggee Smalls

[Tom Vaught]

I have seen a LOT of high mileage Hydrallic cam
Pontiac engines with severe wear on the cam thrust
plate. This is partially due to the helical gear
deal from the distributor but more often from the cam lobe profile which turns the lifters.

The cam plate goes on before the timing gear and keeps the cam from moving FORWARD in the block.

I have not seen the gentleman's parts but, it sounds to me like this gentleman has a needle
bearing deal that fits between the cam thrust plate and the roll master timing chain. As the cam in a typical pontiac engine will be pushing the timing gear AWAY from the thrust plate on the
block the cam will still be wearing the thrust plate on the back side of the plate closest to the cam where it ALWAYS does BUT might be of some benefit on cam movement in the rearward position
during some modes of operation.

Think about it! The Chebby guys used to use a Cam Button to restrict movement of the cam forward
against their filmsy tin timing cover. Pontiac had a better design as they used the thrust plate.

If you had a part that was pressed on the end of the cam snout, had the needle bearing IN BETWEEN
this part and the thrust plate you would remove all wear and could set the cam position in the block perfectly.

The way this deal is now , it is mostly just going along for the ride and not doing anything to
keep the cam wear down between the cam and the stock thrust plate.

A roller cam ccan have movement in either direction so there may be something for that application. It would still be nice to be able to precisely locate the cam in the block without any
movement in either direction.

Tom V.