[Jimbobeast]

Greetings, I am new to this Forum but I have been restoring/modifying 1970 GTO's since the early 80's. I kind of took a hiatus for a couple of decades (life, kids, jobs, etc), but now I'm retired and getting the fever again. Thanks in advance for any help.

I am currently restoring a 1970 RAIV Judge convertible and I need pics of where the Power Flow Ventilation fans are attached. I have searched the forums and mention is made (2008) of two holes in the cowl beneath the trim plate and that there are dimples there, but no pics were ever supplied. Here is a photo of the convertible top and power flow switches installed in the dash.

Also, I'm confused as to where the air is felt from these fans. The top vents look like a sealed system back to the firewall flapper. This car did not have the Power Flow fans originally, so I need to find the dimples, which may make the placement of the fans more obvious. How does the air from the fans get out any of the ducts?

Thanks again for any help.
Jim

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Welcome to the PY Forum Jim.

Is the car a real documented RamIV Judge Convertible ?
Tell us more about the beast

Power-Flo puts air through the side dash vents and kick panel vents. as far as i know
Its supposed to be similar to driving 30-35mph with all the fresh air knobs open on the kick panels. Like at traffic lights or waiting in the staging lanes.

* but i have never ridden in a car that had it *

[Jimbobeast]

It is supposed to be originally a real RAIV, 4-speed Judge convertible, traded back to the dealership in Virginia in 1979, at which time the wing and stripes were removed and it was sold as a "Mom and Pop" car during the gas crisis. It was sold a few more times and eventually ended up with a 350 auto trans, but with the Judge emblem on the glovebox and the 4-speed pedals still in place. When I got it, there was a "US Congress" garage sticker on the windshield. I would venture to say there is some evidence that it was likely a 4-speed Judge but the RAIV part is unknown.
I have never checked the PHS because I really don't want to know if the story is untrue (probably). Right now, as far as I know, it is a real Judge convert.
I do have another real 1970 Judge convertible that I modified in the 80's (who knew they would be valuable). It took home a best of class trophy at the GTOAA meet in Atlanta in 1997 and was in all the magazines. It had fuel injection (now back to a carb), 6-speed, 4 wheel discs, bored-out 455 and a big sound system. It still drives great but really eats gas.
Here are a couple of pics of the red 455 car and the Orbit Orange RAIV car. I just got the dash completed and installed yesterday, but I don't want to go further until I get the Power Flow fans in place.

[OG68]

Extremely rare option, only a few hundred were installed from 69 to 70 when the option was dropped. Buicks and Olds had them too.

Maybe you've seen this thread;

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...18#post5434618

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Only 12 RamIV Judge Convertibles are known to exist.
#13 would be a charm.

i actually do have a 70 GTO 455 R/A Hardtop that has factory Power-Flow.
But have never driven it.
It had already been sitting for a good while, dragged it home 25+ years ago and stashed it away.

If i could get to it without doing major overhaul in that storage area i would try to help, but its too major.
Wish i would have put a battery in it and tried out the Power-Flo when i first brought it home ,,, but i never gave it a thought back then.

Somewhere on here are some more discussions and descriptions/pictures about mounting them. But stuff like this can be hidden in threads that started out as something entirely different, sometimes.

You could try to send a private message to PY member Wake Powell.
He has a 70 IV Judge Hardtop with factory Power-Flow.
Might could snap you a couple of pictures of where the studs come through.

[Jimbobeast]

Originally Posted by OG68

Extremely rare option, only a few hundred were installed from 69 to 70 when the option was dropped. Buicks and Olds had them too.

Maybe you've seen this thread;

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...18#post5434618

Thanks, OG
So it seems that the Power Flow fans hang like bats in the cowl plenum and pressurize the air BEFORE the dash kick panel vents and flappers to recreate the movement of air while the car is in motion. That makes sense. Great. Now if I could (pretty please) get one pic of the placement of the fans (ie the bolt holes), then my bats could find a permanent roost and I could move on to the next phase of the restoration.

[Jimbobeast]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Only 12 RamIV Judge Convertibles are known to exist.
#13 would be a charm.

i actually do have a 70 GTO 455 R/A Hardtop that has factory Power-Flow.
But have never driven it.
It had already been sitting for a good while, dragged it home 25+ years ago and stashed it away.

If i could get to it without doing major overhaul in that storage area i would try to help, but its too major.
Wish i would have put a battery in it and tried out the Power-Flo when i first brought it home ,,, but i never gave it a thought back then.

Somewhere on here are some more discussions and descriptions/pictures about mounting them. But stuff like this can be hidden in threads that started out as something entirely different, sometimes.




You could try to send a private message to PY member Wake Powell.
He has a 70 IV Judge Hardtop with factory Power-Flow.
Might could snap you a couple of pictures of where the studs come through.

Gracias, Senor Baron,
This car was a project I bought in the very early 90's along with a multitude of options that was put in the restoration queue and has only recently been resurrected. The drivetrain was completed way back when, the frame and body media blasted an painted (Orbit Orange). I have many NOS in the box dealer options (tape player, remote hood release, power seat back releases) that have been sitting for 30 years waiting patiently for their turn at bat.
Thanks for the advice.

[70gteeo]

In the fisher body service manual in front end section 5-5. In there shows where the fans location for installation is. I have this option in my gto I may have some pics I took some 20 years ago when I had all of the interior. Good luck with your gto judge.

[north]

I had a 69 convertible that had power flow. The fans hang as mentioned like bats in the plenum just in front of the upper vent air inlet duct. The dimples are quite evident, just beside the trim tag on the drivers side for example. I can’t access my photos this week but I found this pic of a trim tag on a 70 where you can see the two dimples. The units are secured by a nut and serrated lock washer (two studs per side). You can see them just to the lower right of the trim tag. I don’t recall exactly where but the power supply wire ran through a hole in the plenum into the underdash area with the wires having a built in rubber grommet to seal the opening.

I’m sure the 69 assembly manual pages on the firewall area will show the dimple locations for this option.

[north]

Btw, it was a pretty useless option. While not moving it did provide a bit of fresh air ( only on high speed, on low the airflow was barely perceptible) but the location of the blower motors greatly reduced the amount of airflow you’d have otherwise at highway speeds. The only reason to install power flow is for conversation value, but that is still a good reason ;-)

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

A couple more 70 trim tag pics that show the dimples .
Thanks for the idea, North.

[north]

Unless you have a really crafty drill the hood has to come off to drill out the dimples

[hawkins69]

My 69 GP has powerflow vents factory installed. I tore car down a few months ago for restoration. The blower motors that fit inside cowl have brackets installed on fan setup that has studs coming through top of cowl for mounting. It is where the dimples are in your pics. Has nuts that go on from the top. The side bracket mounts from inside cowl sides via a self tapping screw through bracket into side cowl panel. Sharp point of screw sticks out on outside of cowl. Also has wiring harness installed upper cowl area under dash top on backside of cowl panel. Very cool option in my opinion for cars not available with air conditioning

[Jimbobeast]

Well, slap me on the butt and call me Sally, it was there in the 1970 Fisher Body Service Manual all the time, but called "Ventilation Blowers, High Level". The bats will soon have a permanent home.
I can't thank GTOAA advisor Darrell Davidson enough for directing me to this forum. You guys are fantastic. I'll keep the forum updated with my progress and I'm sure I'll have more questions. Here are the pages from the manual:

[Jimbobeast]

Originally Posted by hawkins69

My 69 GP has powerflow vents factory installed. I tore car down a few months ago for restoration. The blower motors that fit inside cowl have brackets installed on fan setup that has studs coming through top of cowl for mounting. It is where the dimples are in your pics. Has nuts that go on from the top. The side bracket mounts from inside cowl sides via a self tapping screw through bracket into side cowl panel. Sharp point of screw sticks out on outside of cowl. Also has wiring harness installed upper cowl area under dash top on backside of cowl panel. Very cool option in my opinion for cars not available with air conditioning

I'm just trying to picture how to insert the self tapping screw, but hopefully it will be through the large lower vent opening and self evident when the fan is attached to the upper bolt holes.

[Jimbobeast]

Originally Posted by 70GTEEO

In the fisher body service manual in front end section 5-5. In there shows where the fans location for installation is. I have this option in my gto I may have some pics I took some 20 years ago when I had all of the interior. Good luck with your gto judge.

70GTEEO, you da man!

[JKGTO]

Not the best pics but they are free

[Jimbobeast]

JKGTO, I see your photos, but there is no way the fans I have will fit in your positions. First of all, my bolts are spaced much wider and each fan bolt spacing is different. I see the dimples where your fans are placed, but there is no way mine will fit there. I guess it's possible I have fans from another GM line, but they sure look the same as the pictures in the book. Also, in the diagrams the left fan motor faces downward and the right fan motor upward. Mine both face up.

Also, there are no holes in the kick panel area to hold the wires and grommet. None. Hmmm.

First I had to remove and replace one stud on each fan, which had been cut off. They were welded on, so I ground them off and replaced them with a bolt. There should be plenty of threads to fasten the fans.

On the right side I found one dimple marked "P". ? Power Flow Ventilation? This seemed to be roughly the spot for the rearward stud and should make the lower bracket attach to the outer portion of the plenum. At least by eye. So I drilled a hole at that dimple and measured the spacing and drilled hole #2. Great. However, trying to fit that fan up the foot well to the cowl AND get the studs into the holes by myself proved to be a no go, so I came up with a crude plan. I fished a wire down through the holes and taped a string to the wire, then tied the string to stud one. Repeat for stud 2. I wrangled the fan roughly into position and then used the strings to guide the studs into the holes. It actually worked on the first try! Amazing. I attached the nuts, cut the string and then fastened the bottom bracket with a self tapping screw. One bat firmly in the roost. You can see all this in the photos. Now I have to drill a 1/2" hole somewhere in the wheel well to get the wires to mate up with the Power Flow harness. All this took roughly 3 hours. I'm beat. Tomorrow the left side.
It looks like the fan is situated perfectly with the out flow directed immediately behind the dash flapper valve. Win-win!

[Jimbobeast]

The last photo shows my 30 year old collection of Power Seat Back, Power Door lock and some of the Power Window harnesses.

[Jimbobeast]

Here is the dash installed.