[NeighborsComplaint]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

IF you'll exercise a bit of intellectual curiosity you'll discover that even flying in a helicopter is statistically far safer than DRIVING....According to readily available FAA (Federal Aviation Administration) data between 1982-2011 there were 127 helicopter crashes in 2011. Of those crashes, 18 had fatalities. The highest number of crashes was in 1982 with 273 crashes. 47 of those crashes had fatalities. The 2010 accident rate in helicopter was .82 per 100,000 flight hours. The fatality rate in helicopters is LOWER than the fatality rate in other aircraft (1.3 per 100,000 hrs. .verses 1.4 per 100,000 hrs.).

If one possesses the intellectual capacity to analyze and interpret the current FAA Rotorcraft Accident data, they would find the following.

Between Jan and Aug 2018, there were 4.07 accidents and 1.62 fatalities per 100,000 flight hours.

That says the odds of an accident in a rotorcraft being a fatal one are 1 in 4, to put it simply.

How do you like those odds?

[SRR]

"The weather was so foggy the Los Angeles Police Department and LA county sheriff’s department had grounded their own choppers."

From the NY Post.

[66sprint6]

We have a TV show here called Mayday. Not sure if you guys get it. In more than one instance in different scenarios on the show, pilots pressured to fly or land in poor conditions were met with tragic consequences.

[george kujanski]

takeoffs are optional...landings are mandatory.

George

[60sstuff]

Originally Posted by SRR

"The weather was so foggy the Los Angeles Police Department and LA county sheriff’s department had grounded their own choppers."

It’s still way early in the investigation, but it seems obvious the pilot in this horrible crash was intent on getting his clients to their destination.

They should have landed in Burbank and played it safe.

I’m not a pilot, but I grew up around planes that my Dad flew for decades out of Springfield Illinois and he constantly preached Safety First before any clients needs.

So tragic and it shouldn’t have happened.

My thoughts are with the families.

Chris.

[daduck]

safety in the air is infinitely more important than on the ground.

no compromises.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by NeighborsComplaint

If one possesses the intellectual capacity to analyze and interpret the current FAA Rotorcraft Accident data, they would find the following.

Between Jan and Aug 2018, there were 4.07 accidents and 1.62 fatalities per 100,000 flight hours.

That says the odds of an accident in a rotorcraft being a fatal one are 1 in 4, to put it simply.

How do you like those odds?

Quite well, actually. How many hundreds of flight hours were flown during the same time period? You forgot to include that statistic. You DO realize that most helicopter accidents occur at night and in IFR conditions? Having to control three axis at the same time can be tricky. Personally, I have flown many thousands of miles in helos, but have NEVER been involved in an accident. BTW....you should really take a long look at your math....

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by george kujanski

takeoffs are optional...landings are mandatory.

George

Well said, George. Remember the old adage about pilots? ‘There are old pilots; there are bold pilots. There are NO old, bold pilots’

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by NeighborsComplaint

If one possesses the intellectual capacity to analyze and interpret the current FAA Rotorcraft Accident data, they would find the following.

Between Jan and Aug 2018, there were 4.07 accidents and 1.62 fatalities per 100,000 flight hours.

That says the odds of an accident in a rotorcraft being a fatal one are 1 in 4, to put it simply.

How do you like those odds?

102 Americans died per DAY in fatal traffic accidents . 147 people died world wide in Western built turbine powered helicopters in 2018. STILL like your odds while driving?

[ta6point6]

Sad thing is Kobe started taking a helicopter so he could spend more time with his kids and less time in CA traffic. It so sad for all those who lost their lives, I cant imagine how bad those last few minutes must have been.
We are all going to be judged one day but keep being critical of others if that makes your world seem better.

[71GP76TA]

People live and die everyday. Why is this guy any different?

[george kujanski]

I don't watch nor do I follow professional sports. To me it's just a bunch of overpaid entertainers. Not my kind of entertainment. Supposedly he used his fame and fortune to give back to the community, and that's a good thing. I don't get all the national crying, etc. Sure his friends and family are devastated, but no more than anyone else who passes away suddenly.

Bottom line, he was someone who was successful at what he chose to do and had notoriety. Not an Einstein, not an Edison, Tesla, Jonas Salk, etc.

George

[coupeute]

Hurryinhossier62 commented on scud running and power lines being involved. I hadn't read about the power lines being involved but now that he mentioned it, I remember many years ago when I lived in the San Fernando Valley, we would go to the Calabasas area which is near the border of Los Angeles County and Ventura County to test fire our hand guns. It was illegal to discharge a weapon in LA County but legal in Ventura County at the time. I remember sitting on one of those large concrete slabs that support the power line towers that you see in cross country power lines. About midnight on Saturday I was driving home on surface streets and the fog was so thick that I could barely see the car in front of me . When the pilot's altitude was revealed by the ATC, I'm not sure if they refer to the footage as being above sea level but the altitude of the San Fernando valley is about 1,300 feet above sea level and as you approach the County line it become more hilly so it's quite possible that he was scud running and may have clipped the power lines. It's very sad and nobody deserves to die that way but it is a good lesson for all of us.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Comment blast;
We used to shoot open range at the base of Limerick Nuclear Power Plant.
Foolish to fly Commercial Helis. Stick to Chinnoks.
When will the more stable Quad copter format replace whirlybird Helis?
...my dad despized the single rotor Helicopter: unstable.
Air Force definition; 56,000 parts flying in tight formation.

Helis; Ya Can't hear in them & and they will rattle you teeth loose.

[george kujanski]

Altitude is reported in MSL (above Mean Sea Level). The airport altitude of Van Nuys is 802 and at Burbank is 778 in the valley nearby. Rules are you need to be 500 ft above ground (AGL) in non-congested areas and 1000 ft AGL in congested areas.

Adding 1000 ft to the airport altitude gives you about 1800 ft, the ATC radar showed him at 1400 in the area. Wrong in so many ways.

I'll state the obvious, should not have flown....fog will typically lift later in the day. Accidents are the result of a chain of events.....break the chain is good prevention.

JFK Jr. story comes to mind...left too late, gotta get there syndrome, ended up in some weather, lost situational awareness, rest is history.

George

[77 TRASHCAN]

Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud

Comment blast;
We used to shoot open range at the base of Limerick Nuclear Power Plant.
Foolish to fly Commercial Helis. Stick to Chinnoks.
When will the more stable Quad copter format replace whirlybird Helis?
...my dad despized the single rotor Helicopter: unstable.
Air Force definition; 56,000 parts flying in tight formation.

Helis; Ya Can't hear in them & and they will rattle you teeth loose.

In Smokey Yunick's biography, it tells about his training as a B-17 pilot. He found out during training, that as a pilot of a B-17, he would be the only one that could actually fly the plane, the co-pilot had some of same training, BUT could not likely perform as a pilot, if needed. If he washed out of pilot school, he may HAVE to be a co-pilot or flight engineer. He wanted no part of that, so he adjusted his own attitude and made for darn sure he got through pilot school, and obviously did. He flew many other types of planes during the war effort, a P-47, and a B-29, neither in combat, but he flew them, and I believe others.....He crash landed the B-29, bringing back a load of POW's, got a royal chewing out over that deal...He said in book, Nobody said a word when I crash landed a shot up B-17, and it broke in two on the runway.....with all surviving....

Point of my blabbing...After the war he wanted to learn to fly and own a small helicopter, for his own use. He thought that because he fly nearly any aircraft known to man, that a helicopter would be a piece of cake for him...... Wrong on that thought. He struggled mightily learning to pilot a chopper. He was VERY frustrated with himself, in the amount of time it took to master flying a chopper.....

[Scarebird]

Originally Posted by george kujanski

...Adding 1000 ft to the airport altitude gives you about 1800 ft, the ATC radar showed him at 1400 in the area. Wrong in so many ways...

George

IIRC rotorcraft only are required 500' AGL in congested areas.

My question is if he was instrument rated why not circle till you get a clearance then proceed? Icing should not have been an issue that low.

Granted I only have a few hours time IMC but it was in a C172SP with steam gauges - far more challenging than an aircraft with modern gauges, giant GPS nav screens and multi axis A/P.

[george kujanski]

didn't know that about the rotorcraft...thanks. A good pilot is always learning.

george

[455HOGT37]

The pilot was instrument rated (and an instrument instructor) , and the aircraft was instrument equipped. That said, this was an FAR part 135 flight, and the limitation on the company's 135 ticket is "VFR ops only". So he was "highly motivated" to remain VFR.

Scud running helicopter ops is NOT unusual in the LA basin, nor is it illegal. The pilot was likely lulled into a sense of false security based on many prior success.

Finally, it's very tough to make the mental shift from VFR to IFR when you have not planned the flight that way. It's one thing to take off with an IFR clearance in visual conditions and EXPECT to punch into the clag on climbout; quite another to switch from visual to instruments and back again, all while trying to maintain visual. It's a classic recepie for spatial disorientation (SD).

There will be a detailed report so no need to speculate just yet, but I sure could understand if it turns out to be SD.

[lust4speed]

We're about 80 miles inland from the coast. We had totally clear weather that day with temps around 70°. About 2:00 PM it looked like smoke coming in through our hills, but as soon as it swept through it was fog. In just a few minutes visibility dropped way down and temps fell to the low 60's. Now our valley is between 3,000 and 4,000 foot and we are many miles inland. I would bet that what they had at the lower elevation and near the coast was more like a light switch being thrown when the fog rolled in.