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#1
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Knuckle Sandwich vs. Tubular Upgrade
I’m relatively new to building cars. I recently acquired my father’s 65 GTO that he had started to restore but never finished. The owner prior to my dad really messed up the interior of the car and swapped out the 4-barrel 389 for a 69 Olds 455.
My dad stripped down the car in 1987 and sent it out for blasting and painting. The blasting happened and a rough primer applied, but it sat like that until 2008 when he took it to my father-in-law who does car restoration for a living. They got the body in pretty good shape and had begun to perform the knuckle sandwich upgrade. My dad is still around but lost interest. My FIL,s health has really deteriorated, so I’m mostly on my own now. Anyway, They never got the sway bar hooked up and some hardware is missing. I was considering starting over completely and going with something like the UMI Stage 3 kit and a TRS disc brake kit. My question is if this is worth the extra expense to improve handling and wheel/tire options for a street car. I’ve been lurking and reading this site for several weeks now. Great information here but the options are almost overwhelming. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I’m not afraid to spend a little extra to make this a really nice resto-mod. |
#2
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That UMI stage 3 kit pretty much covers most things you’d want. It should ride decently and will definitely handle better than stock. The UMI stuff is well engineered so you don’t really have to think about much.
That’s said, before pushing the button on 3200 worth of suspension, I’d think about what you want from the car and exactly how it’s going to be driven. The pieces in that setup will work together to make a responsive, decent riding and handling GTO. But if the car is only ever going to tool around town or straight down the highway, you can save a couple grand and make some basic changes to the factory parts.
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-Jason 1969 Pontiac Firebird |
#3
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My car has a UMI front suspension and a PMT Fabrication rear. I’m very happy with how it handles.
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1965 Pontiac LeMans. M21, 3.73 in a 12 bolt, Kauffman 461. |
#4
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toss the knuckles or sell them if 12" rotor to a 70-81 F body guy.
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#5
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I'm definitely leaning towards the UMI kit. I will probably wait a little longer before pulling the trigger. I want a competent road car with parts that I know the origin of and will allow me the most flexibility down the road. Thanks for the feedback.
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#6
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I'd like to get all new modern suspension someday, whether on this car or the next. But I'm thinking that the first thing to do is stiffen the frame if you are serious about it.
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#7
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Quote:
The camber curve, caster gain and bump steer, especially in a A Body is so bad that any marginal gains you can get in chassis stiffness aren’t going to make a lot of difference. Do the suspension first, then add stiffness. Now if you’ve got 11 grand, I’d slide a Roadstershop Spec chassis under the car and address both at the same time.
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-Jason 1969 Pontiac Firebird |
#8
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If you're considering a kit from UMI Performance, depending on when you want it by, you might consider waiting until the holiday season to purchase. They usually run a holiday sale, so you might as well take advantage of that if you don't need the parts right away. I bought their Stage 3 kit for about $2890 shipped last November. My car is still under restoration so I can't speak to what it's like behind the wheel, but quality is top notch.
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1966 Pontiac GTO (restoration thread) 1998 BMW 328is (track rat) 2023 Subaru Crosstrek Limited (daily) View my photos: Caught in the Wild |
#9
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Wow, I went on the Roadstershop website that is amazing. I can only imagine the handling. A guy can dream.
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#10
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I’ve seen them in person. They are as nice as they look. The Spec series chassis are a true bolt in as well. On partial integrated frame cars like the f-body there’s just a few holes that have to be drilled.
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-Jason 1969 Pontiac Firebird |
#11
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Quote:
The March serpentine kit and a radiator will be the next purchase, then I'll go for suspension. |
#12
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Your project will soon become much more expensive than you anticipated. A nice car you can drive is better than a dream car unfinished in the garage.
GTO suspensions were pretty much the same basic architecture 64 through 72. If it was mine I'd do the same thing I've done twice before. Refurbish all the stock control arms front and rear, tie rods cross link etc. Install a Trans Am front sway bar, used, 1 1/4" diameter and any old A body rear bar and boxed rear control arms. A good welder can box your old arms and install a brace to prevent crushing where the rear bar attaches. (you'll have to drill 4 holes). Moog 'Cargo Coils' in back provide a nice ride without raising the rear end and are sufficiently stiff. Get stiffer front springs. '65 442 front springs might be OK. A 455 and a '65 400 weigh the same. FInally use Howe 1" taller front upper ball joints. For rubber I'd use 15x7 Rallye IIs and 235/60-15s. This setup provides very flat cornering and a decent ride. |
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