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  #341  
Old 01-26-2014, 11:15 PM
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Thanks GM High-Tech Performance!!!

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com..._gto_ls3_swap/

Andrew

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  #342  
Old 01-27-2014, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by andrewb70 View Post
Thanks GM High-Tech Performance!!!

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com..._gto_ls3_swap/

Andrew
Every wrencher's dream! Nice plug! Congrats!

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  #343  
Old 03-02-2014, 02:37 PM
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There have been various discussion on several forums that I frequent regarding driveline vibrations, angles, etc...

In one of the posts, I made the comment that just about every modern, rear wheel drive, performance car uses CV joints for the driveshaft. We spent all kinds of stupid money to buy the latest engine, transmission, and suspension parts, but when it comes to our driveline components, we still use u-joints that date back to the 19th century. I have used a CV driveshaft with great success, but the optimal solution would be to use a driveshaft that uses a CV joint at both the transmission end and at the pinion. So I called Frank at The Driveshaft Shop to discuss this further and after telling him all this he starts to laugh. Then he proceeds to tell me how he just made a batch of pinion yokes for the Ford 9" and the Chevy 12 bolt rear ends that will accommodate a 108mm (Porsche 930 style) CV joint. He sent me the picture below:



That particular yoke is for the Ford 9" rear. What this means is that if someone wants the ultimate solution for a driveshaft, this is it. Using CVs at both ends of the driveshaft means that driveline angles become largely irrelevant. The CVs can accommodate up to 9 degrees of articulation and the front and rear angles operating don't have to match, be opposite, or be as small as possible.

Andrew

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  #344  
Old 03-08-2014, 12:55 PM
GRIM64 GRIM64 is offline
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Excellent thread Andrew, I just stayed up most of the night reading the adventure you've gone through with your car. Thanks for posting such in detail pics and information.

I've been on the fence about doing an LS swap into my 69 GTO ..... You sure threw a hell of a lotta weight onto one end of the scale in the decision process.

Love the video of you racing the the BMW guys...

  #345  
Old 03-08-2014, 07:01 PM
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Excellent thread Andrew, I just stayed up most of the night reading the adventure you've gone through with your car. Thanks for posting such in detail pics and information.

I've been on the fence about doing an LS swap into my 69 GTO ..... You sure threw a hell of a lotta weight onto one end of the scale in the decision process.

Love the video of you racing the the BMW guys...
Thank you! I am glad you found it entertaining and informative. What part of WI are you in? I am moving to Oshkosh in a few months.

Andrew

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  #346  
Old 03-09-2014, 02:02 AM
GRIM64 GRIM64 is offline
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I'm right between Madison & Milwaukee on I94 at the Rt83 exit. Would love to see your car up close!

  #347  
Old 03-09-2014, 11:47 PM
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I'm right between Madison & Milwaukee on I94 at the Rt83 exit. Would love to see your car up close!
Send me a PM. I have a buddy in Janesville. I am pretty excited about moving to WI.

Andrew

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  #348  
Old 07-25-2014, 09:56 AM
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I scratched the fiberglass box idea. Instead, I decided that it would be simpler and easier to build a shelf behind the seat that would support the sub on the passenger side and allow for space for the amp on the driver's side.

Here is what I came up with. It isn't super pretty, but it will do the job. The trunk of my car was never meant to be a show piece, it is there to haul crap.



The shelf is 1/2" MDF and is supported by the hump in the middle and some trimmed down 2x4s on the edges. The 2x4s will be attached to the trunk divider and the sub will be anchored to the bottom of the package tray. Should be pretty solid.

Here you can see where the amp will go.



There will be ample space all around it for cooling and all the wires will come in from behind and underneath and should look pretty clean.

I even decided that I should make everything a little prettier and wrapped the sub in black felt and I will do the same for the shelf.



Stay tuned for more, as I just placed an order with Don at Sound Deadener Showdown

This is turning into sub/interior sound deadener redo...

Any comments and suggestions are welcome as always.

Andrew

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  #349  
Old 07-25-2014, 12:29 PM
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I'm interested in the CVs and shaft solution. So you have to mount the pinion yoke before you can measure for the shaft?

On the sub. I've tried all kinds of boxes in the trunk, fired the subs into the backs of the seats, made side boxes, everything, and it never sounded as good as firing the sub(s) into the cabin. Subs firing into the trunk sounds muddy, muffled, whatever you want to call it, but in my opinion, is not a true solution.

When I bailed on the boxes, ran without subs for a while, missed having something, then mounted them in the deck, free-air. I did boxes around them once, is a little better than free-air, but not enough to go through the trouble. Once I reached the point they needed to be replaced, I pitched the boxes and went back to free-air.

Think I mentioned it before, but I use a piece of 1" thick hardwood, bolted to the rear deck, and then cut the speaker mounting holes into that. I struggled for a while butchering the sheet metal on the deck, but, I finally came to the realization, it's my car.

In that hardwood, you can cut any array of speakers you want that will physically fit, can fill the entire deck with drivers if you want, and the hardwood is not only stronger than the sheet metal ever was, but also helps resonate sound. Helps cut down on vibrations and noise too. ( I have a pair of 10s back there now, with a pair of 6x9s, a 12 fits but is a little tight )

It's not for everyone, but once you hear one done this way, you'll be convinced it's the best sounding way to do it. I'm getting ready to go through the driver, and am going to re-arrange the speakers in the back, will be a little while, but once I get there I'll make sure to post some good pics for all.

And nice work Andrew, as usual!

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http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624
1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car
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  #350  
Old 07-25-2014, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HWYSTR455 View Post
I'm interested in the CVs and shaft solution. So you have to mount the pinion yoke before you can measure for the shaft?

On the sub. I've tried all kinds of boxes in the trunk, fired the subs into the backs of the seats, made side boxes, everything, and it never sounded as good as firing the sub(s) into the cabin. Subs firing into the trunk sounds muddy, muffled, whatever you want to call it, but in my opinion, is not a true solution.

When I bailed on the boxes, ran without subs for a while, missed having something, then mounted them in the deck, free-air. I did boxes around them once, is a little better than free-air, but not enough to go through the trouble. Once I reached the point they needed to be replaced, I pitched the boxes and went back to free-air.

Think I mentioned it before, but I use a piece of 1" thick hardwood, bolted to the rear deck, and then cut the speaker mounting holes into that. I struggled for a while butchering the sheet metal on the deck, but, I finally came to the realization, it's my car.

In that hardwood, you can cut any array of speakers you want that will physically fit, can fill the entire deck with drivers if you want, and the hardwood is not only stronger than the sheet metal ever was, but also helps resonate sound. Helps cut down on vibrations and noise too. ( I have a pair of 10s back there now, with a pair of 6x9s, a 12 fits but is a little tight )

It's not for everyone, but once you hear one done this way, you'll be convinced it's the best sounding way to do it. I'm getting ready to go through the driver, and am going to re-arrange the speakers in the back, will be a little while, but once I get there I'll make sure to post some good pics for all.

And nice work Andrew, as usual!

.
I personally feel more comfortable measuring with the yoke installed in the transmission and the car at ride height. Give Frank a call. He had billet slip yoke made for various popular transmission and he now has pinion yokes as well, so you can build a true dual CV shaft. He can also install non-plunging CVs, which is what I would do if I had to do it over again.

I wrapped up the sub project and it looks and sound better than it was before.



Andrew

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  #351  
Old 07-25-2014, 07:03 PM
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Today I wrapped up the sub-woofer installation. It's really a pain to work so deep inside the trunk. Luckily I had the rear seat out and I could get at some of what I needed to do from inside the passenger compartment.

Here is a shot of the shelf after I wrapped it with some felt:



All of the wiring for the amp goes under the shell and is tucked towards the back.

Here is the final product.



I've also been playing around with making videos for those of you that prefer that sort of thing...

Sub-woofer install in 1970 Pontiac GTO - YouTube

All questions and comments are welcome as always.

Andrew

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  #352  
Old 07-27-2014, 08:29 AM
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Yesterday I tackled another project. Since I removed the subwoofer from under the rear package tray, I was not faced with having a hole in the rear package tray trim piece. I had some nice vinyl that I had purchased a while back, so I decided to cover the package tray with it. The end result wasn't perfect, but I think it turned out pretty well..

Follow along:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqWAn1Bg2p4

Andrew

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  #353  
Old 08-14-2014, 06:20 PM
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As always, little projects tend to take on a life of their own. What started out as a simple subwoofer reconfiguration turned into a rear seat sound deadener project as well.

As I said before, I used products from www.sounddeadenershowdown.com. The methodology that they describe involves a two step process.

First, the metal is prepared using CLD tiles to deaden the metallic ringing that is common when raw steel is tapped or banged. The CLD tiles have an aluminum top and the bottom is a very sticky butyl material. The goal is to apply it to about 25-30% of the panel around it's center mass.

Second, a layer of closed cell foam is applied over the whole area and on top of that mass loaded vinyl is laid to block any sound from penetrating into the passenger compartment.

I applied the CLD tiles all over my package tray, the rear seat/trunk separator panel, and the area under the rear seat. Then I started at the top of the package tray and went all the way to the front of the rear seats with the foam and the MLV. The MLV is hard to work with as it does not mold well and it only bends in one direction. On the other hand, MLV can be bonded (almost welded) to itself using special vinyl adhesive. Using the adhesive I was able to form a solid sheet all the way from the top of the package tray and bond it solidly to the vinyl that was already there which stopped at the rear seat area.

Here is the finished product:



Ideally, I would have also covered the side panels the same way, but I discovered that the foam and vinyl add thickness which creates fitment problems with all the trim panels. Ultimately I decided that this was as far as I was going to go for now.

First driving impression is that what I did definitely reduced the driveline noise that was penetrating the cabin. This made for much quieter driving experience when going down the highway.

Andrew

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  #354  
Old 08-17-2014, 01:14 AM
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So I had the opportunity to go meet Andrew today. I've got a '69 GTO that's going through a very slow restoration and I wanted to pick Andrew's brain on what I should do next on my car. Basically, ask him what would he do differently if he could do it again.
I meet Andrew at his house and he shows me his '70 GTO... first thing that hits you is the blazing red color, Viper Red. It doesn't just hit you - it announces it's presence with authority - like a 2x4 across the face yelling at you "INCOMING". Well, he offers to take me for a ride and of course I jump at the chance.

Let me first say that I'm still alive and I'm going for retina re-attachment surgery next week.

Andrew's GTO has got a healthy rumble to it but nothing obnoxious and sits idling at 1000 rpm. We carve a couple of round-a-bouts then he turns onto the highway on-ramp. What happened next is something that I will NEVER forget (kind of like, where were you when President Kennedy was shot or the Challenger disaster).

OH


MY


GOD !

You guys with LS engines have been holding out on us unwashed, heathen masses that have only sipped from the well of the traditional big block motors. What I experienced was not a sip - far from it. It was not even a gulp... It was like being hit with a blast of water coming from a fire hose mere feet away.
Webster's dictionary does not have the words to describe the acceleration, the words have not been invented yet. Let me give it a try though... Brutal, raw, goose-bump raising, overwhelming, utterly shocked. Now take these words and put them in a magnifier and then raise them to the nth degree and then your getting into a similar area code but you still far short for a proper description.

After he let off the gas and jumped on the brakes my tunnel vision subsided and I first exclaimed "You've GOTTA be kidding me!" followed by a couple of explicatives then a glance at my arm that is covered in goose bumps. No kidding.

The immediate thought in my head was, "I have GOT to get me one of these".

I won't go into detail as I'm sure the statute of limitations might never run out on some of the stuff that he did with his GTO. It was a truly humbling experience that I'll never forget and will now strive to duplicate in my '69 GTO. LS motor - HERE I COME !!!!

Thanks again Andrew - you saved me from making a terrible mistake by not using an LS engine in my build.

  #355  
Old 08-19-2014, 03:23 PM
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Andrew, I am in the Madison are and I am starting my LS3 conversion soon. Are you in the WI area yet? I make it to Fond du Lac a bunch and i would like to meet up sometime to discuss your swap. PM me your number and let's talk soon. Bob

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  #356  
Old 11-14-2014, 02:48 PM
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Haters are going to hate...LOL

https://www.facebook.com/highperformancepontiac

Andrew

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  #357  
Old 11-15-2014, 07:54 PM
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Haters are going to hate...LOL

https://www.facebook.com/highperformancepontiac

Andrew
Let them hate then, WHO cares? I absolutely LOVE the LS in my '72. No more leaks on my driveway or constantly changing inferior Chinese made engine parts. I DRIVE my car regularly and even take long trips in it. It gets fantastic mpgs and is dead reliable.

To each their own. You inspired me to take the plunge, and I'm SOOO glad I did. I have the latest in driveability in the body style I love most. Since GM is not going to make another GTO that looks like my '72, why not enjoy some of the advancements in technology with the body I love?

Thank you!!!!!

  #358  
Old 11-16-2014, 12:11 AM
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Let them hate then, WHO cares? I absolutely LOVE the LS in my '72. No more leaks on my driveway or constantly changing inferior Chinese made engine parts. I DRIVE my car regularly and even take long trips in it. It gets fantastic mpgs and is dead reliable.

To each their own. You inspired me to take the plunge, and I'm SOOO glad I did. I have the latest in driveability in the body style I love most. Since GM is not going to make another GTO that looks like my '72, why not enjoy some of the advancements in technology with the body I love?

Thank you!!!!!
Thank you for the kind words. I have always said that if you want nostalgia, stick with the Pontiac engine, but if you actually want to drive the car, the LS engine can't be beat.

Enjoy the ride!

Andrew

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  #359  
Old 11-17-2014, 07:45 PM
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I'm leaning way to the side of an LS in my 69 bird, will be doing my research on parts as soon as body is finished.

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  #360  
Old 01-26-2015, 11:36 AM
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I am a big fan of the Hot Rod Garage show on the Motor Trend YouTube channel, and on the last episode, they did a LS3 swap into an A-body. Good stuff here, except they totally glossed over how they are managing the 4L65E electronics...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UGlYx_Cjjo

Andrew

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