[vamman1]

Life saver North
Thank you

[vamman1]

So the guy won't give me back the deposit.
Told me the documents he has says it's a GTO.

I really appreciate everyone's help

[Greg Reid]

Ask him how he would like to have someone come to examine those VIN rivets.

[vamman1]

Thanks Greg.
Probably going to place a call to RCMP

[north]

The documentation says that the VIN tag is a GTO, the question is how much of the car is a GTO?

Assuming there’s nothing illegitimate legally about the car then it just comes down to price. If it is as solid in the trunk as what I saw elsewhere on the car, then it’s worth something as a cruiser even with the suspicious story of what it is. But I do think, you have a legal grounds to go after them for your deposit if he did not represent, the car is having a tampered serial number and no certification/trim tag.

[Sidponcho]

Tell him just like this...."give me my money back and I go.away quietly. Stiff me and the cops will be all over you and your Frankenstein pontiac"

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by vamman1

Thanks Greg.
Probably going to place a call to RCMP

Keep in mind that in some provinces and maybe all of Canada, it isn’t illegal to rebody a car. There are rules around it such as the VIN must come from the car supplying the majority of the components such as interior, drivetrain, frame or subframe and of course, neither of the cars can be stolen. I thinks it’s because our horrible winters make sheet metal disposable.

Due to the lack of rust, my guess is that the donor body came from Southern US. I believe an inspection is required by the RCMP if builders go this route.

That VIN has clearly been removed but even if it was placed underneath, it doesn’t look like it would fit. Is that a difference between a 68 and 69 or just an optical illusion?

[Greg Reid]

One way of looking at it is that if you like the car tell him that you're still interested but you have concerns about the legality of the car. You'll make the deal only when it's cleared by the authorities with a missing data plate and obviously reinstalled VIN plate..
Very doubtful that you will be able to see the VIN on the rear frame rail but chances are that it won't match that VIN.

[north]

There is also usually a VIN on the firewall under the lip of the heater box

[thepontiacman]

Always have car inspected by someone with knowledge or carefully inspect yourself and research and consult others like you have done.

I have seen many cars that have been tampered with generally to fool someone into buying it.

Hope you get deposit back.

Sent from my Moto Z3 Play using Tapatalk

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Rosette head rivets are what should be at the VIN plate .
I think we found that some plants went topside and some went underside.
Those rivets can be bought now.

There is a plastic escutcheon that surrounds the VIN plate and hides the rivets and gives a cleaner look.
Used replacements in good condition are not easy to source.

The trim tag may have gotten ruined accidentally by a sandblaster if the firewall/cowl was sandblasted.
Made of aluminum and a sandblaster will disintegrate them.
Just a possibility.
Repop tags can be purchased with correct rivets.

Deposits are usually nonrefundable , and usually stated that way.
In this instance at least 50% should be refunded regardless. my opinion

Good luck with whatever you decide.

['ol Pinion head]

[QUOTE=Baron Von Zeppelin;6444005]Rosette head rivets are what should be at the VIN plate .
I think we found that some plants went topside and some went underside.
Those rivets can be bought now.

There is a plastic escutcheon that surrounds the VIN plate and hides the rivets and gives a cleaner look.
Used replacements in good condition are not easy to source.

The trim tag may have gotten ruined accidentally by a sandblaster if the firewall/cowl was sandblasted.
Made of aluminum and a sandblaster will disintegrate them.
Just a possibility.
Repop tags can be purchased with correct rivets.

Deposits are usually nonrefundable , and usually stated that way.
In this instance at least 50% should be refunded regardless. my opinion

Good luck with whatever you decide

Looking at North's pic of the rear of the car, I'd have to look real closely at the tail panel area to confirm if the one it had been replaced by an average skill metal guy. The black rubber Temoest/LeMans front fender "spacers" would not be that big a deal to remove after pulling the endura nose & replacing w a correct core support.

[vamman1]

Thanks everyone.
I was planning on registering this car in Florida so defintely not worth the risk.
The guy Denis called me an idiot and a moron for wasting his time.
Refused to refund despite trying to sell me a Lemans for a GTO.

What I didn't mention, I picked up that the registration VIN didn't match the car VIN by one number.
When I pointed that out, he managed to get it changed.....

Just too much risk with this car.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Its unknown if its a rebody car (LeMans / Tempest)

But is known that the VIN plate has been tampered with before.
If the sandblast theory is correct about the trim tag , they may have removed the VIN to keep from damaging it also.
Long Shot scenario

A lot of the front end pieces are from a 68 LeMans/tempest.

And there is no trim tag.
Trim tags are not guarded by any laws or required.
But its an eye catcher and mind bender when they are missing from this type of car.

Owner probably bought it unaware , and got educated after displaying the car at events.
Wants to unload the mysteries instead of solve them.

[vamman1]

The guy is dealer who has been selling classics for years is what he told me.

That also was disturbing.
He has other cars on his lot

[will slow gto]

I think you dodged a bullet. If the deposit cost you $1k it’s was an expensive but worthwhile lesson. Console on a column shifted car? A LOT of strange things going on here, thanks for bringing it to everyone’s attention.

[nas t eh]

I agree with above, sometimes spending or loosing money to not buy something is the best outcome.

I have both paid for inspections and walked away from deposits on boats, cars and trucks that I did not buy. Largest deposit I walked away from was $3000.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

....
I think we found that some plants went topside and some went underside.
Those rivets can be bought now.

There is a plastic escutcheon that surrounds the VIN plate and hides the rivets and gives a cleaner look.
Used replacements in good condition are not easy to source.

By "topside" and "underside" I was referring to the rivet head orientation .
The VIN plate itself should be installed from underside.
An escutcheon would not fit the recess now as it is .
I didn't view that picture very well the first time.

A real loose cannon did the deed .

If it was a 68 body , getting a 69 dash mounted took some engineering also .

I would rather be stuck without it - than stuck with it .

[Greg Reid]

If he's a dealer and can't recognize the problem with that dash VIN I don't know what to say.

[kingbuzzo]

The dealer sounds super shady...likely saved yourself some grief

We can help you find a good one...what are you looking for?